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Permalink Reply by Thomas J. Johnson on September 2, 2010 at 2:42pm

We never studied 3ds Max or Rhino in school due to a combination of factors. One it's expensive and two, our professors preferred that we grasp the fundamentals of good design (namely, being able to draw) before getting bogged down in the technicalities of programs. I'm grateful for their approach.

Now that I have some work experience, I'd be interested in learning more about those programs but not at the expense of designing, I.E. I don't want to become "the 3ds guy"... he's not needed all the time...

You also bring up a good point of accessibility. How is one supposed to learn these programs, which cost several thousand dollars? What good is the "very expensive training" if you are unable to practice when you get home or back to the office...?

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Permalink Reply by Boilerplater on September 2, 2010 at 3:15pm

3D programs were in their infancy when I was in school, so they were nowhere to be found in the curriculum. I had a gov't job that sent us for MicroStation training and then a while later a few of us got to take a 3D class, even though we never got to use it in practice. Ah, government inefficiency, where are you when we need you? I think the 3D stuff is pretty cool, but can also be quite time consuming. I looked into 3Ds Max training and found a local class for around $1600. I could see myself playing with a program like that for hours on end, so maybe it would be a good investment in my mental health as well. I've been noticing it called for in a lot of job ads as well. Seems to be the way its going. I saw one recently that asked for Revit, which is more popular among architects.

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Permalink Reply by Pat S. Rosend on September 3, 2010 at 7:29am

Microstation. Ugh. I had to learn that at an engineering firm. Hated it. Any program designed by and for road engineers, is just not a good fit for me!

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Permalink Reply by Ryland Fox on September 2, 2010 at 4:16pm

You can't really lump Rhino in with 3ds. It is a drafting program. Anyone using autocad can pick it up pretty quickly. Plus it isn't expensive.

As far as learning 3ds, if you are a student Autodesk has learning editions of all their software available on their site for free, many tutorials and curriculum, also there are many tutorials on the internet that will get you started. It really isn't that hard, just takes a little dedication.

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Permalink Reply by Yekaterina Yushmanova on September 2, 2010 at 7:38pm

I've done a bunch of tutorials in Rhino while I was in school and honestly found it fun and fairly intuitive to work with. Now that I have graduated and haven't found a job yet, I don't feel like I can afford either the program (and a PC computer since I'm a Mac user) or a class to get some more experience with it. I can't speak for 3ds MAX, I haven't played with it enough to form any kind of opinion, it is just another program that is mentioned.
I'm not in any way against learning these programs, quite the opposite, I think they are great, I'm just not sure how I feel when they are listed as requirement for an entry level position.

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Permalink Reply by Brian Lin on September 2, 2010 at 5:36pm

over the last couple of years i've taken the initiative to request from my firm revit (bim) and 3ds training. most recently, i've been learning rhino from individual lessons (from basic to advanced) on youtube. it's a great resource because you can pause and replay any segment. the only caveat for the free rhino download is that it allows 16 saves, and then the program will deactivate.

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Permalink Reply by nca777 on September 2, 2010 at 6:14pm

In my very humble opinion, there is more opportunity to be taken advantage of by learning how to think and draw than there is being a 3D modeler.

Sure, I feel a little taken advantage of lately being given 4 hours to plan an office park, but I wouldn't have any opportunity to practice if all I could do was make really radical 3D models. I think it's important in these times to think about the ROI for an employer and what you bring them in your skill set. Like someone else said. 3D modeling isn't always needed. Being able to sketch and illustrate ideas in an efficient manner make it possible for managers to make a lot of money off you.

I think the job postings requiring 3D experience is at least in part a way for the firm to filter responses. Those who haven't opened Max will still reply because they know they're smart enough to learn and make the managers money when they're not modeling--which certainly cant be all the time. Same thing with the Masters requirements.

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Permalink Reply by Brian Lin on September 2, 2010 at 6:27pm

bravo nick!

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Permalink Reply by Yekaterina Yushmanova on September 2, 2010 at 7:43pm

Thanks, Nick. It is a good way to look at it.

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Permalink Reply by Frank Varro on September 2, 2010 at 8:31pm

I TA'ed an undergrad course in Computer Tech, and most of the 3D time was spent on SketchUp, as that seems like the hands-down industry leader when it comes to ease of use and quick turn around.

When I was in undergrad I took a computer graphics course at Iowa State that involved Form-Z, and I taught myself 3DS Max, and am starting to teach myself Kerkythea right now. I think the problem with having courses that involve Rhino right now are that programs like it go WAY over the heads of some people who are less Computer inclined, and with the small numbers in LA schools due to accreditation requirements of student/faculty ratios, it seem Rhino, like 3DS Max is the type of program that schools cannot dedicate a class to for the small number of students who would take and enjoy the course.

I think it may end up being an issue of who takes the initiative to educate themselves in this software, which is always difficult, as what program do you choose? I Picked 3DS Max because I knew it, and it seemed like an industry leader. Did I make the wrong choice? Or does the fact that I am self-taught on 3DS Max mean that I should do well with Rhino?

I think for a lot of firms, Rhino and 3DS Max are viewed as the modern day CAD. Meaning that 15 years ago a few people knew CAD, but not everyone did. Being able to be a great Cad Monkey would get you a position as an entry level LA in a firm who would groom you into a project manager. Now, everyone knows CAD, just like 15 years ago everyone knew how to hand draft. The more rare, but advantageous thing to know now is 3D modeling. I think these are the new "Monkey" positions that firms look to fill to bring people in, knowing that their method of design can be taught to the monkey, creating a future project manager who knows design AND 3D software.

What I wonder especially as someone who models in SketchUp and renders in 3DS Max (and soon kerkythea), is how flexible firms are in the 3D rendering program they name. If I say I can do 3DS Max, is that as good as Rhino, or do they really want someone who knows Rhino?

Then my head spins off my neck...

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Permalink Reply by Brian Lin on September 2, 2010 at 9:43pm

When I first embraced digital technology, I struggled with that very issue: which program is the industry standard and would help me be more competitive in the job market. So what did I end up doing? I learned every program to a basic level (Rhino, Revit, AutoCAD, 3DS, Sketch-Up...Maya was way over the top) so that when I needed to use one program or the other in order to collaborate with certain design teams, I could hit the ground running and contribute rather than sit on the sidelines and suffer the learning curve of most of these programs.

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Permalink Reply by earthworker on September 2, 2010 at 9:54pm

You saw recent job postings? Did you see these open job postings while pigs were flying and hell was freezing over? I have not seen viable job postings in this industry for months.
As far as 3d is concerned, it is not taught in school because instructors don't know how to use it or teach it. Most don't even know Autocad. From what I have seen in most firms, the high end 3d work is done by a graduate of the local Art Institutes. They are not paid well and know next to nothing about landscape architecture.

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