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Passing Section 4 5 Replies

Started by Shavawn Coleman. Last reply by Ray Freeman Aug 12.

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Comment by J. Robert Wainner on October 28, 2015 at 8:27am

Rachel....I totally understand where you're coming from concerning the L.A.R.E. exam.  CLARB (in my opinion) is doing a disservice to our Profession by developing a testing method that is more about the "testing process itself" than about whether or not a candidate knows the material.

I think it would be very helpful to LA grads, IF, a Senior LA who is an expert on the L.A.R.E. exam could visit every University LA graduating class (during their final semester) and spend time coaching those (soon to be graduates) on HOW to take the L.A.R.E. exam.  That could save LA graduates a TON of $$$ and anxiety when they do sit for the L.A.R.E. exam.  Preparing LA graduates for the "real world" should include preparing them to take and pass the L.A.R.E...well, it's a thought anyway.

That's totally ridiculous that a 10 yr. LA veteran like you would have difficulties with the L.A.R.E....That should demonstrate to CLARB that their L.A.R.E. exam is flawed and should be re-designed to test for "content".  I'm fairly computer literate, but, I feel sure that even I would have difficulties with that L.A.R.E exam as well.

It's just my opinion here, that CLARB has created a "cash cow" mechanism that serves them....NOT the Landscape Architects that make it possible for the members of that board to earn their annual salaries.

Comment by Rachel on October 28, 2015 at 6:40am

J. Robert, That's definitely commendable and thank you for mentoring people. I honestly don't know how you have the time. 

Here's what we should really be talking about. The LARE itself is ridiculous. I walked out of each test angry and frustrated and sure I didn't pass. It's not a test of whether you know the materials, but rather a test of how well you aren't fooled by strangely worded questions. As I mentioned previously, I'm sure I wouldn't have passed grading without the course, but that isn't because I don't know grading. I know grading very well and have been doing it for almost 10 years. I actually enjoy doing it. While the course was a good brush up on grading and had a large packet of exercises, more importantly it went over the many nuances within the LARE itself and taught me to pay attention to every single word in those questions.

And don't get me started on the cost. Talking to civil engineers they are flabbergasted by the cost of our test compared to their test which is only $450. Not to mention other disciplines have study materials that are well versed in what is on the test while we blindly wade through it hoping we're studying the correct material because it's so secretive. 

Comment by J. Robert Wainner on October 27, 2015 at 8:22pm

I would like to THANK YOU, Matt Mathes for the very kind compliment you gave me in your comment below.

To Rachel....Yes, you're right, only helping (1) young LA is not enough.  While I worked for a Dallas LA firm for 14 yrs., I had the opportunity to "mentor" well over (40) young LA's who joined our LA firm.  Since then, I have enjoyed helping others through various Landscape Architecture Internet Blogs, members of LAND8, etc. I also recently helped a female LA in Texas who was having difficulties with the Grading Section of the L.A.R.E. Exam...Even though she had to take the L.A.R.E. exam via computer (Grading is grading)...I coached her through a couple of previous L.A.R.E. Grading examples and taught her the "process"...she then passed the L.A.R.E exam. and is now a Licensed LA in The State Of Texas...and I made a new friend as well.

And, I am more than willing to help ANY LA here on LAND8 (to help them pass any section of the L.A.R.E. - at no charge). 

Rachel, I'm happy that you Mr. Freeman's seminar helped you pass the L.A.R.E. exam...I really am.  But, I would have been more than happy to help you for FREE.

And, I find it interesting that the young LA that I "mentored" for over (3) yrs. graduated from the SAME University that Stephanie graduated from....The University Of Kentucky.

I just think it's a sad state of affairs that CLARB created the demand for these L.A.R.E. exam seminars.  Of course it should be difficult enough to test for "competency", but, CLARB thinks of their L.A.R.E. exam like it's the BAR EXAM for graduated Law Students.  If University LA graduates are getting the property education (in a 4 or 5 yr. program), in my opinion, they shouldn't need a L.A.R.E. seminar to pass that exam.

Comment by Rachel on October 26, 2015 at 7:06pm

Stephanie makes a good point though. If you only teach one the profession does not grow as the number stays the same while one retires they've only brought on one to replace them. These courses teach many. It's a service that is offered because there is a demand for it. Honestly I trust taking one of the courses more than from a senior LA because I know they are keeping up with what is current. Btw, I passed section 4 on my first try after taking Mr. Freeman's course. Without it I'm positive I would have had to retake it which would have cost more than taking it in the first place.

Comment by Cheryl Corson on October 26, 2015 at 7:01pm

I don't look at it as older folks helping younger folks but rather peers helping peers. As Matt has heard me say, more than half of the folks in my Corson Learning webinars are over 40 and sitting for the LARE. I respect those who took the UNE for their fortitude. I don't think I could do that in one day in some stiflingly hot state fairground classroom. But now, LARE candidates need help from folks familiar with the current exam which demands certain cognitive skills apart from merely the content. And due to the cost, the stakes are higher, so targeted preparation is wise in whatever form it takes. 

Comment by Matt Mathes on October 26, 2015 at 5:57pm

Agreeing with and endorsing J. Robert Wainner's comments posted on Jan. 25, July 28 and Oct. 23, if each licensed professional reached out to help only 1 active LARE candidate, the profession grows. Design construction professions similar to landscape architects each have paid and pro-bono prep instructors as well as free and commercial study materials. Mr. Wainner is proving relevancy of a pro-bono approach by the uptake. He also makes a key point that all accredited programs are not equal. Programs like Texas A&M consistently bring forward well rounded alums who have an easier time passing LARE, since the 1970s and today.  Cheers to Bob  serving as a model private practice professional delivering LARE prep pro-bono, making wide options available to active candidates along with books, live sessions, webinars, blogs or panel discussions.

Comment by STEPHANIE Landregan FASLA LEED on October 25, 2015 at 8:11pm
Bob, not everyone has access to someone like you! And the LARE prep classes were started to tackle how to teach more than one candidate at a time. I would say most of the LARE prep providers are doing this for the same reason you do, but they can't do it for free.

The world is different from when you took the UNE, so is medicine and other PROFESSIONS that are licensed. Currency is the name of licensing and the LARE, did you have computers when you took the UNE, did you use ReVIT, RHINO, SKETCh up? You didn't even have a cell phone! Email!

So stop the judgement, I'm glad you helped one guy. I agree I hope senior LAs help young emerging professionals, but many of the senior LAs are not current, and the Prep classes are, and have helped MANY folks get licensed.
Comment by J. Robert Wainner on October 23, 2015 at 11:00pm

Oct. 23, 2015.....A P.S.......to directly address Mr. Ray Freeman's comments below.

The problem I have with these PAID L.A.R.E. Seminars is that they are even necessary in the first place.  When I took the U.N.E. after graduating from Texas A&M, I didn't attend any seminars to learn HOW to pass the U.N.E. Exam.  I used the knowledge I learned @ A&M, took the test & passed it. Approx. 18 mos. later, I was a Licensed LA in both Texas & Florida.

Ray, that's really generous of you to offer a WHOLE (2) Hours of Pro Bono Seminars each year.  Too funny.

Over the past (3) years, I mentored one LA who lives on the East Coast (I didn't charge him a dime).  We spoke on the phone every month, I sent him example drawings to help him better understand "contract documents" & over those (3) yrs., we exchanged approx. 450 e-mails discussing all aspects of the Landscape Architecture profession...as he was doing a "start-up" LA practice.

In the early stages of helping this young LA, I went through (3) different L.A.R.E. Grading Problems for him...then, taught him the "process", so, that when he got in the L.A.R.E. exam, he would be able to pass that section (which he was struggling with).  He passed the L.A.R.E Exam and is now a Licensed LA in (2) different states.  Again, I didn't charge this young LA for helping him.

I'm not going to PROFIT off of young LAs who are having to deal with CLARB's ridiculous examinations. 

Personally, I believe EVERY Senior Landscape Architect should give back.....by helping younger LAs or young LA Firms.  Because, I remember so many super LA's who were very talented and experienced who helped ME throughout my very long LA career.

When I choose to earn PROFITS.....I do so through LA design services I offer.

Very Respectfully,

J. Robert (Bob) Wainner

Comment by J. Robert Wainner on October 22, 2015 at 9:12pm

Way back when I took the U.N.E. (which is the L.A.R.E. exam today)....I think I spent maybe $200.00 max.

NOW, CLARB has created this intense National Exam (that you have to take on a computer).........my exam was by hand where I had to do a Grading Plan, Construction Details & a Design (in color).  I didn't need to go to ANY study seminars...I just went and took the test, which lasted 2-1/2 days.

I know of one LA graduate who spent over $10,000.00 on L.A.R.E seminars, travel expenses, exam fees, etc.....before he passed all of the sections of the L.A.R.E. exam.

Personally, I think all of you SENIOR LAs who are charging LARGE SUMS of $$$$$$ is nothing more than a scam....taking advantage of the a BAD system created by CLARB. 

I'm wondering what the SALARIES are for all of the people who work for CLARB are?????

Then, LAs pass the L.A.R.E exam......and Good Luck finding a job out there.  And, if you do find one....it will pay you peanuts.  What has happened to this Profession???

Comment by STEPHANIE Landregan FASLA LEED on October 14, 2015 at 3:53pm

When the new format was instated, the record holder fee covered a whole year, so that you could save a little bit of money by attempting to take the exam sections either together or as Tony did, a week apart without a "new" application fee. I like Tony's suggestion. Rebooting takes about a week, and with the window for exams, could easily be arranged. Good luck!


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