[Leslie B Wagle]

It’s hard to “be unsure and reluctant to invest so asking for payment and training together” in any profession….medical, engineering, law, etc. when others have done some training first. That’s why I suggested finding a slot where your other horticulture-related experience might be of use. For example, an LA firm may have a botanic or sustainable garden to plan within a bigger context that could use someone with direct experience if you found a summer-long short niche like that and then got past the door to see a firm in action. I spent one summer doing the reading/research needed and writing them on cards (today it would probably be making word software notes) from which information label would later be made for plants in a botanical garden. I had some L A credits by then, but not really any great drafting skills. But it was in the campus park & planning dept. of the university where I was a student, and I was sitting one partition away from the grad L.A. assigned to produce the site plans for a new stadium. The following summer when I could draw a little bit, I got hired by the Instructional Media Center to draw up some overlays of a pond system to process wastewater by use of algae an it also wasn’t “designer” work but helped me watch real trained illustrators at work on media that variou faculty people sent orders for (to assist in their lectures as slides etc.) If you can’t find a niche like that then another angle might be to just call and ask if a local firm would allow you to come in for a half or whole hour to learn a little as a potential future student, ie. get into an office “tour,” of course at their conveniece. I think a generous one would be glad to talk about their past and current work and let you sit a few minutes next to one of the project staff. And I think before going,or if nothing like that opens up…. look around in ASLA.org and click on “the Dirt” or their introductory page for people to learn about the field:
https://www.asla.org/aboutlandscapearchitecture.aspx

I certainly think it’s important to get a taste before a deep dive and lack of grasp that it is a challenging curriculum often has hit students hard who didn’t know themselves or the nature of the course work. But on the other hand, for other people it is a highly varied and potentially rewarding field.

[Leslie B Wagle]

I’ve heard of firms hiring people who were 2- 2 1/2 years into their B.S. but there are a couple of considerations here. 1) No, they wouldn’t likely take the time to train you in the software (others may be more current on this but I am thinking about a parallel in times past when the job applicant usually had basic hand drafting skills). 2) Any time you spend working would not count heavily towards the work requirement to eventually apply for a license. I know that wasn’t in your question, but it means you wouldn’t really be getting “experience” other than seeing what working LA’s do in a particular office by being around them.

There might be another route, which is to get a few community college “landscape design” courses, or even a 2 year associate’s degree. These programs train people to be competent enough in design and plant knowledge to work for larger design-build firms which furnish plans for their clients. You might even like what that leads to, and make it your field. You just wouldn’t be qualified to do more technical work (public parks, transportation, campus type) and most likely not many larger commercial private projects (multifamily, hospitals etc.). A possible benefit is being able to earn a living with just “the interest” to start with, baesd on your landscaping/flower farm experience. For example, big contractors may design and install “color beds” for shopping centers, etc. However a downside is that not many credits from these programs directy transfer to L.A. programs. They are designed more for companies that do residential and grounds upgrades/maintenance. That goes for the sideline or after-courses career as well. That doesn’t mean the experience isn’t valuable. It always helps to know more about how the growing, estimating, and installationo processes work.

Check on any promises about course trnasfers a program makes by cross-checking with L.A. schools you may be thinking about or are likely to attend if accepted.

I hope others chime in who may have had more recent experience. I got credit for plant materials but not much else from a prior horticulture degree when applying to a later LA program. And I spent a year in a nursery after the horticulture but prior to starting LA courses. After the second degree, being hired into an office did happen but I know our state board only gives partial credit towards licensing if post-graduation work is not in an LA firm (i.e. work for a contractor, engineer, or architect).

[Leslie B Wagle]

Unless someone else has been in your exact spot (from the same country etc.) I think there aren’t any answers because most states also require some employment experience as well as a degree, and there will need to be an individual response from the state where you seek registration. (To determine what weight they will assign to your whole record). So you sound like you are doing all you can at the moment.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by Leslie B Wagle.

[Leslie B Wagle]

I’ve been passing that on to people closer to the gadgetry myself with no problems as well but I feel a little weird that I have to explain it to clients (saving on design fees helps the issue).Those are areas that someone really interested in the work will gladly do and rather than charge my time (if I had ever invested in learning it), contractor referral seems to make the most sense, so far not causing any loss of work on master planning/grading/planting plans/some details. I didn’t think any schools really take took to drill it into grads but wasn’t sure; it’s understandable if they don’t.

On the other hand, if grads can’t cope with understanding some planning (how to comply with ordinances of various sorts), that would be a noticeable deficit, but it’s one that has grown in importance over the years.

[Leslie B Wagle]

Yes, I thought right after I posted that, it would depend on what you find you must (or what you want to) aim for, and there are different sets of skills needed accordingly. Then there is the general innocence most of us have about how hard it is to find the right niche and to get work, period. But being motivated and feeling competent helps get the work, and the completing of work builds the portfolio that you mentioned to someone in another topic.

I admit I am weak on a couple of areas (irrigation, lighting design, and even swimming pools at the guts level of how they work vs. aesthetic form and placement). But if the issues don’t come up a lot in your normal flow and you don’t feel a crying need for them, hence don’t enjoy the unfamiliarity that breeds, then it’s hard to focus on covering the deficit and you stay in your groove unless it becomes a handicap.

[Leslie B Wagle]

I’ve only see it in fences but don’t see why it couldn’t be siding, depending on whether it lasts as long as other treated or tested wood products. I wouldn’t do it strictly for an appearance preference without knowing that.

[Leslie B Wagle]

Just wanted to add….if you do anything on line, be sure it’s got interactive classes with other students. I just don’t think you can learn the interaction that offices expect without an initiation in collaboration, ie. if your studies themselves are as an isolated person with a “tutor.” I realize the whole field is going to have more vitual offices but LA’s serving clients that way are usually basing it on some earlier mixed experience. The education passage lays a foundation of deeper insight into “how to work” that just can’t be quantified; otherwise all we would need are books and software manuals.

[Leslie B Wagle]

I don’t really know that state so can’t guide you. But just beware of something. There sometimes ARE people who get a job with a registered L.A. as a helper person who knows plants well, can do drafting, estimating, watercolor sketches, nearly anything….including LA students who just didn’t finish their degree. And if you gathered some courses anywhere at all, it could put you on a slow license track. But look into whether the state you want to stay in allows such training and experience only under conditions of a deep discount. Many license acts give credit for unusual training and/or experience gained in other ways such as working with a civil engineer or architect, contractor, or even survey crew. But it can rate something like 1/3 or 1/2 the value of the ideal experience. I think the lack of an accredited degree could affect you the same way: extra years of experience required, meaning you could be delayed a long time and depending on the details, end up compromised in how you would fare on parts of the exam as well.

Another route might just be to get a degree that would allow working for a design/build firm that could offer some satisfaction. In my area, the state community or technical college system has a “Turfgrass Management” 2 year degree which sounds unrelated. But it turns out that they teach how to do small scale design with some industry type software since the opportunities to manage big grounds and golf courses may not materialize or be seasonal. Those other courses allow the grads to do design/installation for small companies and is essentially training to be a landscape contractor. Other schools may have a more “landscape design” sounding technical degree.

If you don’t like what that leads to after some employment experience, you might get some transfer credits from it, be a little ahead if you find your way into an LA school, and step into the LA field with some work credits (even if discounted). But that could be just another detour and not any better deal than what you are thinking. I’d just be very careful about money spent where the faculty may be more artist/illustrators/environmentalists etc. and that could leave you lacking technical courses on plant knowledge, construction etc.

[Leslie B Wagle]

Isn’t there a way to find out if a school is an ACCREDITED one – by CLARB or another body? I don’t even understand the purpose of a degree for people who are just “interested in” LA. That is almost cruel if students don’t come out with the necessary technical skills, when the same time could be spent in a solid program that could lead to employment and the relevant state exam. If you are just “interested,” then there are lighter courses or even horticultural “design” ones at jr. colleges just to get a taste of something similar.

[Leslie B Wagle]

Oh, I think that will always have potential. It was widely used even back in the “olden days,” when I had my drawing board at home and only later moved into a former classroom in a renovated school building (and now am back home again). You just have to decide to market yourself to earn the convenience, and it doesn’t work so well for people interested in government or teaching. CAD and virtual communication make self employment even more feasible and home as a 1-person office setting. There just are some people who cannot seem to focus (or claim that) at home. But you can let yourself get distracted too easily in a shared or rented office, too.

[Leslie B Wagle]

Yes I think you may not be getting many replies because there was enough work to keep going with, and people are hoping an absolute loss of desire for design work doesn’t happen or ever become a “new normal.” Keep up your personal projects and hope for the future. From what I’m thinking, the building industry can’t collapse because we will always need to revise and repair sites and there will be retro-fitting at least. Even if some companies go under, there will be replacements to fill the spaces as long as there is an active culture, but things may come back in variable regional and sector patterns. There isn’t a fundamental change, we have more like pent up demand than anything. I’m no prophet but I’d bet more on a shifting but visible resurgence, not decades-long semi-permanent cave in.

People are people; if they can’t carry out what were interrupted plans, they will revise or do something else. They aren’t going to convert into midieval monks. If the profession gets into near starvation mode, you’ll see plenty of dramatic posts – and even if we go through a period of that, the angst evaporates when healing gets underway. At least that was true in the 2012 or so time period and the doom of L.A. topics just stopped suddenly (not on Land8 but other platforms) when there was less idle time. It was a funny thing to see, not a trickle down but dead stop. Like people had enough gloom and a switch was turned off. Maybe some just dropped out but I believe others moved on with some kind of adjustment and others got to return to a condition more like their “old normal.”

[Leslie B Wagle]

I looked into this pretty deeply and decided that most of the slick and “better” 3D ones were a) mostly for Microsoft, not Macs and 2) a big investment in terms of both cost and learning curves. I came up with a solution but it’s still not for every residential job and I don’t encourage people to fantasize that they will automatically get a 3D because of what that does to the fee. And because you still need a plan in the end, to lay out on the site and estimate from, they need to understand it involves extra work and isn’t an automatic push-button side effect. Clients just so far don’t seem to grasp what it takes to crank out 3D. They want it like a free “extra,” and on the production end, it just is not that way on the designer end. It’s great to know how to produce for big jobs but not if people just think they are entitled or it’s the “expected thing” because they have seen or heard of it.

[Leslie B Wagle]

I was hoping someone with more insight into hiring in larger firms would answer this, but I’ll try and just offer general wisdom. Just go with emphasis on your strengths. You don’t have to exaggerate them but don’t get discouraged by what you “haven’t” done already. Everybody starts somewhere, gathers what experience is possible, and keeps zigzagging through a career, hopefully upwards but it’s not always possible to get very specific on what the next step will look like. Some people start more in construction detailing/field work and worry from the opposit side, how they can get to the point of being trusted with some schematic design. Not everybody gets to do both in the early stages. Think hard about ANYTHING that got built (we often don’t have much control over that) and even if you only had a role in it, document that. Say what you’d like to try to do more of, and don’t expect to start several rungs above where you are. Someone out there will be looking for you. You don’t say why you want to change but consider that large busy design/build firms are most likely to need schematic without construction documents since they have both a record and existing skills to finish a job from good concepts, sufficiently illustrated to sell to their incoming clients without having to be sent out for multiple bids.

[Leslie B Wagle]

Maybe I’m wading in here more on impression than deep study of it, but I think a seal is saying “I am qualified by education, preparation, experience, and (most likely) testing to do this plan” (for any sheet it is on- sometimes as required by reviewing jurisdiction). That also implies it is your property. But doing the work in the first place gives you the copyright unless you have consented to release it to the client, like ads I have seen asking for a transfer. I presume that is because they are real estate people who want to re-publish the work although they could just get your permission for that anyway. As far as insurance, if you can be tracked down, you may be liable even if you don’t seal it, so it’s probably wise to add the comment “not for construction” or equivalent if the drawing is only a concept.

[Leslie B Wagle]

I can only answer for where I was a planner. Planning was the “clearing house” or contact point but some other cities may do it differently. Besides our own review, we would circulate submissions to other department(s) which could be inspections, fire, transportation, public works etc. Big project developers just knew to bring multiple sets as all of them had to sign off prior to building permits. When people brought something straight to inspections, since inspections weren’t confident about commenting on setbacks etc. they would likewise refer the customer or forward the application to the planning department (or ask us to just look at it and advise them). Local staff should know who you need to see and guide you through their (short or long) maze. Some even have handout guides for what to submit to who based on the size/type/complexity of the project.

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