[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Yeah……good one, Jason!  LOL.  And, I apologize.  I do appreciate your input here…..and your opinions.  We are pretty much coming from two different “generations” of LAs….with different points of view. 

I think we can DEFINITELY “learn” from each other.

Regards,

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Jason……Now…..WHY would I wish to do that?  The world does NOT revolve around computers….well, maybe in YOUR World – not mine.

As I mentioned above…..it really doesn’t matter the METHOD you use to draw or design with….what MATTERS is the “quality” of the design & the graphics.  Even if you know how to use every computer software program known to man – that doesn’t necessarily mean those drawing will be “well done”…or that the “designs” are good or creative ones. 

That’s fine…..use computer software, but, don’t forget what you’re trying to achieve during the “process”.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Jason…….of course, I  understand that “computer software” is just a new-age version of the drawing board & hand drawings. 

I KNEW I’d push some people’s “hot buttons” with my comments.

LA’s should use the drawing tools & support programs that work for them…..I use a computer for research, writing proposals, communicating with clients…..scan documents.  But, I choose to (and am perfectly comfortable with “hand drawings” and have been for over 36 years).  And Jason, with all due respect to you…I do have over 22 yrs. on you & feel my Portfolio stands up VERY well to your’s…and your Portfolio appears to be 99% computerized. Every color rendering or sketch in my Portfolio is 100% “hand drawn” and every photo of every project was designed “by hand”…and interestingly enough…..they all got built just fine.

I don’t have a problem with the METHOD that any LA uses to produce color renderings, sketches or even Contract Documents……but, they STILL should be “very professionally produced”.  Not just great design, but outstanding graphics….and line weights for Contract Documents are important to ensure those documents “communicate”.  I’ll put my “hand drawn” Contract Documents up against any LA’s “autoCAD” drawings.  I’ve been drawing architectural drawings since I was 12 yrs. old…I understand “line weights” and how to make them “read” well.  An awful lot of the autoCAD contract documents I’ve seen produced….just don’t have appropriate “line weights”…they don’t “read all that well”.

I realize the “vast majority” of LA’s utilize “computer software” for 95% of their LA work these days…..but, that doesn’t mean that the work is “outstanding”….it just means they know how to use “computer software”…..because, the truth is, many LAs really can’t “draw very well by hand”….period.

No, I’m not ridiculing any LA for using “computer software”…..but, if they’re going to use it…..LEARN HOW to use it well….and that goes for ALL types of “computer software”.

Respectfully,

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Hey Alan, everyone.  I have personally designed over (400) pool and pool amenity areas during my LA career.  And, I have always included “Pool Construction Details” with my Contract Documents.  So, when you read my comment below….understand that my years of experience with POOLS has taught me well.

But, I have to say…over the years, I have learned that even those as LAs, we were all taught to design “Pool Construction Details” and other construction items…..I have learned that you have to be CAUTIOUS……..”liability issues”.

First, I make SURE I full understand a particular State’s Pool Codes….the State Pool Codes over-ride all City & County Pool Codes.

Oh, I make sure my Pool Drawings show design intent…meet all CODES…..have the pool plaster, coping, depth markers, pool fencing, pool tile….all SAFETY issues covered.  And rather than specifying pool pumps, etc…again, I show “design intent” on my Pool Plans….and have the Pool Builders determined the proper pool pump sizes, water sources/pressure, pipe sizes, etc.

When drawing up Pool Construction Details….again, I show “design intent” for the Pool Builders.  So many problems/issues can come up with pool construction (after the fact)…..i.e., pool cracks, pool beams separating from the adjacent pool deck, pools can move, etc.

On my Pool Construction Plans, I place a NOTE that states:  “The Structural Design of the Pool shall be by the project’s Structural Engineer”. 

A Structural Eng. once advised me on a pool I had designed…..in reviewing my Preliminary Pool Plans…..he explained to me the pool was “too long”.  It was over 100 feet long, curved style pool.  He explained that you could NOT add enough rein. bars (even large ones) OR large enough pool beams to keep that pool from “cracking”.  He recommended I re-design the pool to be in 2 or 3 sections – where the pool could be built to be “structurally sound”.

Another pool I designed in Dallas was located where I knew the soil was bad….very expansive clay soil.  The pool was in a tight courtyard, with approx. 30 feet of grade change…the pool was to have 3 levels.  I recommended to the Owner that he have his “Structural Engineer” design the pool beam and specify what was necessary to prevent the pool from moving.  The “Structural Engineer” ended up adding (30) 24 inch dia. concrete piers that extended down from the pool beam….through the clay where those piers would rest on the rock layer located below the clay soil.  It’s been over 20 yrs. and that pool has NOT moved.  I just didn’t feel that I had the expertise OR that the Pool Builder knew enough to ensure this pool would NOT move.  I guarantee you, that IF that Structural Engineer had not designed that pool beam (and added those concrete beams)…that pool would have MOVED…and it would have had to be jacked out and re-built…which would have been a nightmare logistically….major costs too!!!  AND, had that pool MOVED, I promise you, that Owner’s Attorney would have been looking for ME.

So….no matter what type of Landscape Architectural Design Element it is you’re designing….(retaining walls, heavy duty arbors, pools, etc.)….I just think it’s WISE to be very cautious…and get a Structural Engineer involved…get them to approve the design details & add his/her Structural Eng. seal….and let them take on the “liability”.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

You people are unbelievable!!!  Are you kidding me???

All you guys are ABOUT here is “computer software, computer hardware, file storage, computer problems, etc., etc………

I know, WHY don’t you guys just go back to COLLEGE and major in “Computer Science” and go to work for MICROSOFT…..I’m sure that company would love to have you guys onboard.

Yes…….I realize that certain aspects of “computer software drawing” programs have become a PLUS in the Landscape Architecture profession……but, IF I were reading some of the comments in this discussion and did NOT realize this website is LAND8 (a Landscape Architecture) website……I’d think it was a website set up for IT pros and computer geeks.

Last night, I was enjoying DESIGNING……free-hand.  Coming up with creative ideas for one of my client’s…..I wasn’t wrestling with computer problems or IT issues.  I was actually doing “Landscape Architecture”.

I really believe……that many LAs today are WISHING they had a “computer software program” where all they would have to do is push ONE KEY on their keyboard…..and that would create the DESIGN and PRODUCE all the drawings “automatically”…….send those drawings to the clients and then, mail out the invoices…..job done!

I’m afraid what’s going on….is all of this IT – computer software is just DUMBING DOWN the “creative design process”.  I mean, there are LA grads coming out of schools with degrees who can’t even DRAW…..really?!

OK….I’ll leave and let you guys discuss your “computer problems” further.  HAVE FUN!

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

P.S………………Well, I apologize for maybe being a bit disrespectful with MY earlier response….being a bit insensitive.  I just sometimes think “some” LA’s were more suited to be Professional IT experts than Landscape Architects.  They’re so wrapped up in all of the “computer hardware – software” technology and HOW to produce the design work…….that they sometimes tend to forget….we are in a very “creative” design profession…we’re artistic, graphic…we solve problems & create fantastic people spaces. 

No, I’m not a “computer software-phobic” LA…but, at times, it just seems we have allowed the IT industry to pull us too far from our creative – design roots….that’s all.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Jim……………….after reading YOUR story here.  NOW, I realize WHY (for my entire 36+ year LA career have relied on ONLY 100% “hand drawn” plans)…..prelim. color renderings, sketches, construction details and even final contract documents.  I only use my computer for e-mails, Google research and to type of things like design proposals, preliminary cost estimates and plant lists.  I keep it simple and it has ALWAYS worked for me.

Best of Luck to you!

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Oh, I understand your philosophy, Brian……WHERE you live, work & retire is important, for sure.

But, consider this…..think of the “dollar figure” in terms of California State Taxes and very high cost of living…….$___________?  That amount of excessive expense COULD have been deposited in to your 401K……..for retirement.

That’s “part of the reason”, many thousands of Californians (and New Yorkers) are moving out of those states.  They probably can’t afford to retire there.

Just a thought.

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Hey Brian;

I did some checking on COST OF LIVING……take ONLY “housing” for this comparison.

I began with Los Angeles….and compared several cities “housing” to Los Angeles.

Here are my results:  San Francisco…….+44%

                                  Phoenix, AZ………..-54%

                                  Dallas, TX…………..-60.7%

                                  Miami, FL……………-40%

                                  New York, NY……..+122%

                                  Chicago………………-30%

                                  Washington, D.C….+30%

You can of course a LOT of various COST ISSUES for every major U.S. city.  But, the point I was making…..entry level & early career LA’s just aren’t paid very much.  So, when you’re doing a JOB SEARCH, you really have to a LOT of “research”….look at everything in locations where you are wanting to practice Landscape Architecture.  Oh, I know, times are rough now, everyone can’t just pick and choose WHERE they wish to work as an LA. 

However, there are DEFINITELY reasonable cities/states to live and work in…..California and New York are NOT on that list…..as far as I’m concerned.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Once again…….I agree with you here, Craig.

#1……Unless a designer is officially “Licensed as a Landscape Architect” in one of the 50 States……that person can NOT use the TITLE “Landscape Architect”.  Until you’re “licensed”, you’re a Landscape Designer. 

#2…..Temp – you mentioned you have (10) yrs. of experience. And you’ve spent over $5,000.00 “trying” to PASS the LARE.  I’m have a problem with this picture.  What’s the problem???

#3…..Temp – I highly recommend you hire yourself a TUTOR….a Licensed Landscape Architect who has passed the LARE who would be willing to coach you through the sections you’re having problems with.

Now………………..I’m OUT.  I seriously hoping I don’t see anymore comments about this discussion in my e-mail in box.  GO STUDY!!!

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Temp……………….You’re just WASTING additional TIME here!

Change your “obsession” from complaining about CLARB to being “obsessed” with PASSING the L.A.R.E……It will be in your best interests!!!

Good Luck!

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Craig……….I have to AGREE with your assessment of this discussion.  I seriously doubt that any one person OR group can do anything to change the way CLARB conducts their business OR sets of the L.A.R.E. examinations.

With all of the respect I may offer to the person who originated this discussion…..ALL of the time spent on discussing, complaining, etc. about CLARB and the L.A.R.E….could have been time better spent STUDYING for the L.A.R.E. sections you have not yet passed.  FOCUS on preparing for the L.A.R.E…..complaining here on LAND8 isn’t getting you any closer to PASSING.

There are “boot camps” and some very well written books published about various sections of the L.A.R.E. exam.  It’s sort of like when we were all back in College…..you have to just go along with the University system…play by THEIR rules…get the passing grades………and earn your diploma….and move on towards getting your LA license.

So……………can we end this discussion already?  Time to hit the books and just go PASS the L.A.R.E.

Very Respectfully,

J. Robert (Bob) Wainner

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

A couple of yrs. ago (in states like Arizona & Texas), I was seeing entry level LA salaries at $27K to $32k (those were Private Practice).  5 yrs. ago, I was seeing those same salaries closer to $45k to $50k.

My guess would be that “public” LA salaries would be higher than “private”.  Personally, I was never interested in a “public” sector job of any kind….but, that’s just me.

However, I always avoided LA job searches in the State of California…..due to the very high cost of living and high taxes.  Don’t get me wrong…California is FANTASTIC….hey, I was born in So. Cal.  But, I can also add that LA firms are NOT compensating (adjusting salaries) for their LA employees due to the high cost of living or high tax situation in that State.  Because, if LA firms were doing so…they’d need to adjust salaries upwards of 15% to 20%.

But, I really don’t think SALARY should be the main focus while job searching.  LA grads need to get their foot in the door of a good – well established LA firm and get some EXPERIENCE.  Get in a firm and LEARN from the experienced and talented LA’s around them.  As your LA skills improved and you prove yourself…I think the salary should follow.

It would be my advise to LA grads to NOT even mention SALARY in a first job interview.  If an LA firm is interested….they most likely would invite you back for a 2nd interview and then maybe offer you a position at the firm – and make you a salary offer. 

I would like to highly recommend a job interview book to ALL LA grads.  It’s called “HIRE ME” by Patricia Drain.  Great book.  It explains everything you really NEED to know to give a great job interview.  And, because LA jobs are just not easy to find these days……if you do get a job interview with an LA firm….you need to make SURE you give an outstanding interview.  This book is only a $10 book…on Amazon.com – well worth the expense.

Good Luck!

J. Robert (Bob) Wainner

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

To MLCC…….if there is any way I might be able to be of help to you on the SECTION 4 of the L.A.R.E. exam……I’d be happy to help – if I can.  I’m not familiar with the L.A.R.E. exam….like you are.  When I took the exam many years ago, it was call the U.N.E……a lot has changed.

However, the basics of Landscape Architecture, I believe, still apply.

Hey, noticed you’re an AGGIE (like me)…….regardless, I would like to see you PASS the L.A.R.E. and get those expenses behind you.

I recently mentored an LA University Grad on the East Coast…….he just needed to pass the “Grading Design” portion of the the L.A.R.E. exam.  I worked with him….and got him up to speed on the “process”…..and he was then easily able to PASS the L.A.R.E…..and is now an RLA in (2) different states.

Let me know, OK?

Best Regards,

J. Robert (Bob) Wainner – Plano, Tx.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Roland…..you’ve made some excellent points here!

I think the KEY is…..to be able to be a “sponge” and learn everything you can from the LA’s around you with more experience (as well as….I’ve learned a TON from younger LA’s I’ve worked with).  But…..it’s important to “filter” out the BAD info. coming your way. 

I too have worked with BOTH types of employers & employees…….I’ve always believed that the patient ones with a great sense of humor – did so much more to help me….and my career.  I was fortunate to have worked for (2) Partners at a Dallas firm for 13 years.  Both great guys and exceptionally talented in different ways.  I learned an incredible amount of knowledge from these guys (both 8 yrs. my senior).  I NEVER would have made it on my own when I started my own LA practice at age 41…..had it not been for those 2 LA’s.  Couldn’t find 2 better bosses if I tried.  I was fortunate.

 

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