is a seat wall as good as a bench (or better?)

[Trace One]

We have two ‘rest areas’ designs (public stopping places on state or federal highways) going out of our office that don’t have a single bench. Just seat walls. Lots of seat walls, but absolutely no benches. At least in the second design, the seat walls are 24″ wide – in the first design they were only 18″.

 

In my humble, this choice ignores user groups who need benches..and also who recognize benches as seating areas – a ‘cognate’, whereas a seat wall is something else entirely..

 

Arguments against benches :

1.Why rest on a bench after driving for six hours.

2. Benches will be vandalized and quickly cease to function as benches. (a fact that I dispute. we got lots of public benches at bus stops..Yes, they are very sturdy, but they are benches!)

 

Anybody else care about benches?

[Jason T. Radice]

I always use both, often I even place benches in front of the walls. Seatwalls are fine for short periods of time, but they certainly are not the most comfortable things. Unless you contour the cap, they can be downright painful for more than 5 minutes. Many benches are not much better. However, the proper bench cannot be replaced with a seatwall. Benches provide back support, a more comfortable seating surface, and arms. They are far more accessible and comfortable for use by those with physical issues, I almost consider it an ADA issue.

I know they are expensive, I generally use a bench that is $1300 (the most expensive that particular manufacturer makes) which consists of iron endcastings and curved wood seating and back. I use wood because it is a cooler surface to sit on in sunny areas. You can get benches pretty cheap nowandays, but you have to worry about durability. A good bench should last at least 30 years, and if installed properly, difficult to remove.

As for the walls, when coupled with benches, I actually use them as mostly as leaning walls, which are a bit higher. Those so inclined can still hop up a few inches and sit on them, as the usual 18″ is a bit too low to be comfortable for many.

[Trace One]

Thank you Jason, can I forward your reply to my fellow LA’s here at work..!! I think you are exactly right..

the 18″ referred to width, not height. But I like the idea of making seat-walls generally a bit higher than seat-height – I like that..!.

[Bob Luther]

have you ever tried to lay down on a seatwall? One of the reasons I was told to use seat walls is that “bums” cannot sleep on a seatwall, the fall off, a bench with a back allows a bed for people to sleep on in public spaces, this is also the reason for backless benches and curved top seat benches in public spaces.

[Ben Yahr]

I would definitely prefer a bench, primarily because it has a back, but there are ways to make seatwalls more appealing and functional-

[Jason T. Radice]

Sure, go ahead. The 18″ I refer to is the standard seating height, width is always variable based on materials and aesthetics. Depending on the application, As far as the comment of the ‘bums’…it really doesn’t matter if there are benches or not, bums sleep anywhere. I once had to walk around one sleeping in the MIDDLE of the MAIN SIDEWALK of Independence Plaza in Philly, after the renovation. If it is a concern, order shorter benches (5’), backless benches (but with arm rests) or order benches with bum-bars or a unit with an extra support casting placed in the middle of the bench. I’ve seen homeless sleep on walls as well if they are wide enough. Being that this application is that of a rest stop, I don’t think this is an overriding concern as it would be at a marginal urban site.

[Trace One]

tried laying down on a seatwall at lunch..Bums came around and told me I wouldn’t make it through the night, and I better join them on the benches..
🙂

Nice picture of a lovely seatwall, Ben!

[Bob Luther]

look at you getting real world experiences! 🙂

[Jason T. Radice]

Also, keep in mind for other applications that seatwalls are the PERFECT height for vandalism via skateboard. If you make the walls higher, it is much more difficult to ‘grind’ on, saving thousands on replacing caps or having to install skate stops

[Andrew Garulay, RLA]

I had no idea that homeless sleeping on seating is a problem in highway rest stops – definitely other problems, but this is the first I have heard of the homeless frequenting these areas. Which leads to the obvious question …. are there other activities that may be the inspiration for not using benches and substituting seating walls? I can’t help but wonder if seating walls vs. benches may be a deterrent to some of those other activities.

A bench is a bench, but a seating wall can be a bench, a fence, a guardrail, a strong visual builder of space, a guide for circulation, and sometimes it retains and/or controls runoff flow as well as many other things. They are also very built in structures which can make them very much joined into the landscape where a bench typically looks like something isolated on the landscape. This is especially true if the walls are built out of natural local stone.

[Trace One]

Andrew, the bums using benches question was not part of the decision making process for our rest areas, you are correct..that came up only though this web site..but you are also correct in that some ‘rest stops’ are notorious for some aberrant ‘activities’ as you so politely put it.. don’t know if a seat wall or a bench is better for that..hmmm..

and your description of seat wall design is very eloquent.and accurate..Our seat walls are definiteley as you described – space builders, natural stone..very nicely articulated, Andrew G…..

but what does your wide, creaky old lady (as I shall soon be) sit on, if there aren’t any benches…and what should she use for her aberrant ‘activites’..a seat wall or a bench..
I’m having fun with this one, obviously..

[Andrew Garulay, RLA]

I’ve not designed rest areas (bath house for a nudist colony, but never a rest area), and have never seriously considered the factors that would go into choosing the right seating for a particular rest stop. You just made me think about seating walls and benches a lot more than I normally do which made me want to point out some differences that may or may not be the reasons why they are used in your state’s rest stops. I don’t know that one is better than another, just that there are different possibilities.

I should think that your desired seating experience is not unique and should be one of the more important aspects (man there are too many puns and plays on words to avoid here) in developing a seating strategy. Maybe they smply do not want people to stay there very long.

Does the DOT have and do they share the design criteria that they want used for rest area design to their design staff? It leads to the question of whether they keep their design people isolated from fully developing the design or whether they force cookie cutter design criteria state wide. It seems that it would make more sense to keep everyone involved in sharing questions and ideas from not only the top down, but from the bottom up. If there are reasons for doing or not doing what they are doing, they should at least communicate them so that everyone understands why whether you agree with them or not..

[Trace One]

I know you were not saying bums were at the rest stop with your ‘sleeping on benches’ point – I think it is a valid point, just talking benches vs. seat walls in general..
We have a lot of freedom – there is generally one person who does the design, and then he gets hit from all sides by all the other areas of responsibility – hydrology, planning, state architects..it’s interesting how much freedom we actually have – like I said before, when you work for governmental agencies, you don’t have clients, really, like in private…just fellow state employees who can’t be fired, so they totally get in your face, if they feel like it…..and then of course, there is the value engineering process..

so, thank you all for your input..definitely some eloquent words about benches..
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