Is the profession dying?

[nca]

i hear you rick. western slope is tough.

I think organizations like asla have a role in helping democratize design. The fact that design has become a rare commodity accessible only to the wealthy is written all over the american landscape, especially in western colorado.

I probably spend more time talking to architects than other las these days–they lose work to contractors too. However as you mentioned aia is rolling out their #lookup campaign, which should help.

[mark foster]

“Have you branched out from traditional practice? How are you ‘pushing’ the boundaries of your LA practice?”  I am design/build, specializing in construction–so yeah, I would say I am on a twig on a branch.

“Are you self advocating?”  All the time.  

“What, if anything are you doing to drive the profession?”  I often meet people who have misconceptions, or no conception, of what a Landscape Architect is.  I give a very good, short memorized speech. 

“Participating in local ASLA Chapter, or other committees?” No, I left the ASLA long ago—got tired of being treated like the only used car salesman in the room.

“Do you believe ASLA is doing enough?”  Yes,my state chapter is doing enough harm. 

[Gabriel Ngaosi]

Interesting responses, not encouraging at all as a transfer student who has just been accepted to CPP for LA (I probably won’t accept). Im sorry but everything out ( job market)  there for a new grad is dismal, and seems to only be in the grasps of those who have already been in the field for a couple of years. 

[Sarah Deosdade Tucker]

I’ll echo what others have said: this question is on a cycle that comes up periodically. I’ll start off by saying that I’m a young’un–I graduated in 2007 and have worked at 3 different LA firms since then. I remember this existential question coming up when I was in college, and I’ve witnessed 75% of my class abandon the field when the last recession hit. I was fortunate: I kept my job until 2011 when I was laid off along with a quarter of the office, and I was only out of work for about 7 weeks. I recently moved back to the company I did my first internship with.

No, I do not think our profession is dying. I think we are, as ever, misunderstood, under-appreciated, and under-utilized, but what else is new? Other design professionals and engineers who know their stuff know they need to hire us to make their projects better. As a young LA (received my license in 2013) I’m seeing first-hand how our profession is becoming more known. My area tends to lag several years behind the trends in the rest of the country, and it’s interesting to see where we’ll be heading soon and try to advocate for (or against) those trends.

As to branching out, I think it is really dependent on the company. I see many firms specialize more and more on certain aspects. My first company was somewhat high-profile in our area and was prime on most of their projects, some very large in scope; they were a healthy mix of hardscape, planting, grading and drainage, planning, lighting, etc. My last company did primarily high-end residential and was about half planting, half hardscape. My company right now probably does 75% planting plans with some planning, not so much focus on hardscape, and primarily public-sector work.

Like most LAs my age, I graduated shiny-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to make big changes! Change the field! Make our world a better place! You can guess where that’s gone. However, far from being disillusioned, I’ve become more realistic. We will always be misunderstood, under-appreciated, and under-utilized. I don’t think that will ever change. There won’t be a time when high school or college students learn who Lawrence Halprin, Garrett Eckbo, Hideo Sasaki, insert-big-name-LA-here are. They won’t associate us or any of those names with Frank Gehry, Frank Lloyd Wright, Renzo Piano, or I.M. Pei.

I’ve realized that the best way I can advocate for our profession is to do quality work that people will enjoy. When they walk through the amazing urban park in my city and enjoy the dog park, playgrounds, art, mature shade trees and trails, they won’t know which firm designed or led decision-making for most of that. But they will realize that there’s a better way to do things than the trapezoidal concrete channel that runs along the road that park lies on and collects trash. They may not know what to call it, but landscape architecture will there.

Other consultants are trying to cut into our work. To be honest, informed developers and clients know the difference between a site designed by a landscape contractor or engineer and one designed by an LA.Will we be consumed by other professions? Possibly. But I think that’s a long way away.

As for ASLA and whether they are doing enough, that’s a loaded question. Nationally? I think they’re trying. State-level? They’re caught up trying to make sure the state still requires licenses for us. Locally? Mine is a joke, though others around the state are doing well.

I’ll end my speech there. I’ve got a long way to go, but I’m very optimistic about the field in general. Until the next recession. Then I might give up and let my software/web developer husband take care of me for life while I plant pretty flowers in my yard.

[nca]

“Like most LAs my age, I graduated shiny-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to make big changes! Change the field! Make our world a better place! You can guess where that’s gone. However, far from being disillusioned, I’ve become more realistic. We will always be misunderstood, under-appreciated, and under-utilized. I don’t think that will ever change. There won’t be a time when high school or college students learn who Lawrence Halprin, Garrett Eckbo, Hideo Sasaki, insert-big-name-LA-here are. They won’t associate us or any of those names with Frank Gehry, Frank Lloyd Wright, Renzo Piano, or I.M. Pei.”

I think thats a very defeatist attitude that way too many las concede to. I started my micro practice two years ago based on similar ideals. My professional goals dont necessarily include elevating the profession, earning fame, and untold riches. In fact, we are working on some pretty rudimentary projects. Why? because we are also practical. we take what work we can get and do the very best we can with it. Often times, the parameters are rigged, but the work serves as a means to more opportunities. Due to our passion for design, we have earned a seat at the table to some very important discussions, access to influential people, and garnered some degree of influence ourselves as to the direction of our community. I think we all have a story yet to be told, about who we are, what we aspire to be, and what we are worth. Each of us can edit that story at any time if only we dare to break out of the mantra with which we are indoctrined via employers, clients, other consultants, our friends, family, whomever. I would challenge more designers to hang on to their idealism–i believe its what drives so much innovation in other design fields. Unfortunately, we’ve told this story of ourselves so many times, we think its non fiction.

[Rick Spalenka]

I still have one role model to keep me going.  Jens Jensen.  One of the greatest designers in our profession and he didn’t open his professional office until he was 65 years old.  I got one more year to yet be discovered 🙂

[Gabriel Ngaosi]

And there lies the rub. You’ve said and Ive read it all over these boards, in so many words “misunderstood, under-appreciated, and underutilized” It is at this crossroad in my life that idealism must give way to pragmatism. I love design, and it took me 5 years into a medical career to to figure it out and drop everything to pursue it. I am fortunate enough to have the possibility to be accepted into CSULB Industrial Design.

With foreseen student debt, coupled with current job offerings, How many of you would go into the field again? or would you pursue other avenues that allows you to be creative.

[Anonymous]

There were a lot of design professionals (and others) feeling misunderstood, underappreciated and underutilized when the bottom fell out in 2008, prior to that you wrote your own ticket as an LA if you were a good designer. You had to manage your money with the boom/bust cycles, but it’s pretty much the same for all design professionals. That said, if you’re good and you know the right people you can build a practice that’s practically recession proof. I’m still working on the knowing the right people part (wink, wink).

It’s hard to be an LA, but that’s what I signed up for. I didn’t get into this business for fame and fortune. I’m a Landscape Architect mostly because of the people I work with. There are a few assholes in the game, but most LAs are pretty cool people. I believe that cool people gravitate to this profession. The other thing is that I get a real thrill working with clients and contractors, designing and seeing my ideas built on whatever scale. So much of what we do doesn’t feel like work that sometimes I feel like I’m cheating.

In a nut shell, if you’re not the kind of person who is willing to gamble your life away and stay up all night to get a degree in a profession in which you may or may not be good enough to get your first low paying job in, then being an LA is not for you. What makes it even worse is once you’ve landed your  first job they work you like a dog and you usually don’t get to do any ‘real’ design for years. The good thing is that after 2-6 years of being put in a grinder life as a young LA gets better. Once you’re at the senior level other than recessions and depressions life is good. So to answer your questions, I wouldn’t hesitate to go through it all again to have the best job in the world. 

[Andrew Garulay, RLA]

I’d do it again and I got my degree at 35. I also have a lot less of the “essential skills” skills that all LAs are supposed to have (I draw like a 4 year old). I also did not go to a big name school (Idaho) and moved back to eastern Massachusetts where big name degrees are all over the place and my degree was looked at as a joke (I know people who were present when it was reviewed).

The deck was stacked against me as it is stacked against everyone else going into this field. I’m white, male, and I don’t wear a religion in my last name, so I had no discrimination shadow that I could let creep into my thoughts of why my career did not scream forward. I expected that when I got my stamp everything would change – it did not. Idealism had to give way to pragmatism as Gabriel just posted. It was totally up to me to do something to move forward and I was fortunate to recognize that simply because I came up empty when looking for excuses. If you keep finding those excuses, you are screwed whether they are real or not.

Idealism has ASLA promoting the profession and creating a demand for our services AND convincing the public that ONLY a Landscape Architect can do or should be allowed to do those services. Idealism has every licensed LA wanting to give back to the profession by hiring interns and teaching them everything they can. Idealism has LAs working in firms being paid in relation to the rate that they are billed out at. Idealism has other professionals convinced that they should not do any kind of work that may be done by a landscape architect on projects that they are already working on with a client asking them to do it.

Pragmatism has us find what opportunities exist right now. Pragmatism has us study how things are actually done where we work or where we want to work. Pragmatism has us figure out where the next opportunities may be. Pragmatism tells us that if you follow the same path as everyone else you have a lot of competition for the same opportunities – great if you are the best of the best, not so good if you are part of the rest.

I believe that many more people would advance their careers a lot farther and faster if they did not spend so much time married to the idea that “as the profession goes, so do I”.

I love the profession. I like the licensing. The education is tremendous – it does set us up to think very differently than the other professions and from landscape contractors. These are the things that we go through that should make us more competitive for the type of work that needs these skills.

I believe all of that in a pragmatic sense. I and all of us should have the ability to compete for and get work that we are better suited to do simply because we are better suited to do it. You are either more competitive or you are not. If you are, why would you need someone else to convince the public of that? Why would you need every other professional or non-professional to step aside or promise not to do the work that might fit into this gray area we call landscape architecture?

Too many of us are sitting at the end of the bench waiting for our team to win the Super Bowl so that we can get a ring instead of doing the best we can and hoping the team benefits from it.

If you lose work to other professionals, one of three things is happening. The other professional is capable of doing it well, or the project does not value a higher standard, or you are not as outstanding as you think you are. The reason is certainly not because of public perception or anything that ASLA is not doing.

The profession of Landscape Architecture is a concept. It is not a tangible thing. It can’t live, nor can it die. The things that are done within that concept have been done before the concept came about and will be done if the concept changes or goes away.

[Anonymous]

 

I couldn’t agree with you more Andrew, the ASLA, your degree and registration are not going to part seas for you. I worked for an RLA with no college degree who became a millionaire; I know several LAs and LDs I’m guessing in the $150,000 to $300,000 per year range and some who are damn near starving. I know a landscape designer on Long Island who’s had a few RLAs looked down their noses at him, when the guy has a client base of nothing but ‘A’ list-ers. Here’s a regular Joe, from a no-name school, with no registration making a good living designing in some of the most exclusive communities in the country. He was able to excel by being a good designer and putting himself in the right places to meet the right people. He’s not worried about landscape contractors, architects, civils taking work from him, because he knows that no one else is going to bring to the table the same package that he brings. That’s why I don’t lose any sleep worrying about some other profession muscling in on my turf. As long as I stay on top of my game, no one else but another well trained LA/LD can compete with me. So this is a profession where you can blaze your own path.

As far as the big name school thing, I’ve found that most employers don’t care about the ranking of a program. There are duds graduating from the best schools and stars coming out of the most obscure programs. The big name school can get you a second look when it comes to getting the first interview though.

“I believe that many more people would advance their careers a lot farther and faster if they did not spend so much time married to the idea that “as the profession goes, so do I”.

I think that was worth repeating. 

[Anonymous]

Make your own luck.

[Anonymous]

 

“…informed developers and clients know the difference between a site designed by a landscape contractor or engineer and one designed by an LA”

I absolutely agree with you and I’ll add that informed developers, clients and architects are who we want to be working with anyway. I’m very optimistic about the future of the profession because more and more decision makers are demanding LAs be included on any project with a landscape component.

When I sit at a table with other design professionals on a project, I make sure that I’m well informed and on time, because the stereotype of an LA is late, unprepared and sloppy. Yeah, I still want to talk about ‘touchy feely’ things, draw curves and add color to a black and white, orthogonal world, but I can also navigate in the sober world of the engineer.  If you can speak their language and know your construction and materials, they will respect you. I don’t have too many problems with architects.

Don’t sweat it; we’re well over do for a boom period. We’ve gone through a period of austerity that has to be made up for. Mark my word LAs will be drawing top dollar for their services in the not too distant future.

[nca]

Its not so much this:

“Idealism has ASLA promoting the profession and creating a demand for our services AND convincing the public that ONLY a Landscape Architect can do or should be allowed to do those services.”

…as it is increasing awareness of our profession. Let clients choose and the free market dictate who does what and when, but first ‘we’ need to be recognized. I wouldn’t expect ASLA to do all of this for us–yes, we each individually have to do our best work, network, educate clients on our own. However idealistic this may sound, I also do believe there is a greater purpose where LA’s can and should play an important role. 

For those working for well-established practices it can seem like the cutting edge is the front lines of professional practice–your clients know what you do, they respect you, and utilize you effectively. I tend to think the ‘front lines’ are in suburban, middle class America where I would guess the majority of LA’s do most of their work. Small startup shops like mine fight for a presence whether it be in land use planning, residential, commercial site diesgn, urban planning. The average citizen has no idea what an LA does and in my experience the average citizen is where most of the work originates. I have found, in particular, even public work a need arises and is championed by the community (average citizens).

I’m not exactly losing sleep over the future of the profession, but wondering where we can take it.

[Andrew Garulay, RLA]

I agree that there is a place for ASLA and that it is beneficial for the public to understand who we are and what we do. I just think that a lot of us think it is more important than it is.

I see you as a great example having followed you for years. You are part of a small startup shop as you say, but look what you and your company are doing and who you are competing with – YOU DID THAT! You did that whether or not you have a stamp. You did that with or without ASLA convincing the average person of your worth. You did it with a lot of established people falling down or struggling all around you. You did it in a bad economy. …. and anyone who has paid attention to you knows that you are just getting going.

It would really suck if some entity pushed and got through a criteria that would not allow you to do what you do for whatever reason.

The profession built the structure that established the education and experience track. The education and experience is what carries you forward from there, in my opinion.

Nick, you are all set. The only thing you don’t have (and most of us in this profession don’t have) is patience. I think you are moving forward way faster than you think.

[nca]

Thanks Andrew. Your encouragement is much, much appreciated. Isn’t it crazy to think you and I have been communicating on one forum or another for close to ten years! …I can still remember those first few posts I made on another website asking for guidance in the design-build realm. I think its important to take time to reflect on where youve been in order to chart a course for where you want to go–your comment helps put things in perspective.

You hit the nail on the head with regard to ‘patience’–not one of my strong suits.

[Author]

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