BIM in Landscape

[David McKenna]

We are Landscape Architects in the UK looking at the best software package that has BIM functionality and think Civil  3D looks likely. Our Arcitects have fully embraced Revit but this does not seem to work for Landscape.  Does Civil3D work ok for Landscape Architects and how well does it integrate with Revit?

[Roland Beinert]

I stumbled across this video a few days ago, which might help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7r28EMrzFM

If you decide you really need new software for BIM, I’m not sure civil 3d by itself would be the best option. You might want to look into Landcadd, which can work with either revit or civil 3d.

Working with revit by itself isn’t impossible for us, though. Some landscape firms seem to do it. Take a look at these videos: http://ladcourses.blogspot.com/2013/04/lad202-bim-for-landscape-architecture.html

If you really don’t like using revit, though, you might consider vectorworks, which a lot of landscape architects seem to like. I’m not sure how well it would work with revit, though. I’ve never seen much discussion on that.

[Robert Anderson]

We have personal experience with interacting with Architects using REVIT. We have moved to Vectorworks Landmark and exchange files with them using IFC files. You get the added benefit of using a software package that has planting design with fantastic 3D tools and graphics. Additionally it is far more affordable than autodesk.

[David McKenna]

Thanks for your help.  The links to videos and the Norwegian lecture is useful. I don’t think the Vectorworks route would suit us as our internal architectural team use Revit exclusively.  It looks like we might have to get training on both Revit and Civil3D and use whichever is appropriat to the situation.  I intend to talk to some engineers to find out how well Civil3D works as BIM and also to see how well it communicates with Revit

[Lauren Schmidt]

Thanks for posting that video.

There is also a new blog out there- http://bimforlas.wordpress.com/ that seems to be focusing on how Revit can be used by landscape architects. 

[Roland Beinert]

I’m glad to see there’s a new blog in English. I’ve seen a few other blogs and they’re usually in Norwegian or some other language.

[Roland Beinert]

Just created a BIM and BIM Software group here on Land8, if anyone wants to join.

https://land8.com/group/bim-and-bim-software

[Tosh K]

I didn’t (don’t) like Civil3D – it’s great for developments/roads but awful difficult to get smooth terrain and not particularly helpful in doing walls with variation in cross-sections, etc.  The software uses lines and sections to do quantities and such so it is a bit clunky.  It was useful to verify grades, but not as useful as Revit is to architects that do box architecture (no complex geometry in Revit either).

Vectorworks is somewhat common in some of the higher end offices on this side of the pond (being less expensive than AutoCAD and much less so than Revit).  Maybe when Rhino’s BIM add-on becomes more robust that’ll work too.

[Jeremiah Farmer]

I had some email correspondence with some of the BIM Task Force in the UK.

I felt that one of the most important points to stress regarding Level 2 compliancy was this:

“A quick review shows little of direct relevance to landscape yet”.

In terms of attempting to actually satisfy Level 2 requirements, that would require generating a BIM spreadsheet, ideally a COBie file, but note that a plant would be a BuildingElementProxy — essentially a nothing.

If your internal team is using Revit, then I would offer your best solution would be AutoCAD/SketchUp/LandFX.

Full disclosure, I am the developer for Land F/X, but working with hundreds of firms needing to satisfy BIM requirements does give me a bit of a perspective.

Civil3D will not offer you anything, other than an empty wallet.

–J

[Richard Kidger]

Very true, I’m not a BIM specialist, but vectorworks is closing in on practices in the UK. An excellent tool, and cost effective. Cheap upgrades if you take the service option.

[Henry Fenby-Taylor]

If you go for Vectorworks, for the love of god retool and use apple macs, it’s still very buggy on PCs. (Despite Nemetschek being technically the oldest company, Vectorworks has only really been about on PC for 8 years which makes it the youngest and least mature software) 

[Henry Fenby-Taylor]

and as for the original question how well does Civil 3D integrate with Revit. The answer is, that depends, you need to define methodologies very carefully, because it’s very easy to break the link if each file isn’t submitted in a style that the other ‘likes’.

[Daniel Ewald]

First things first: Civil 3D is not, by definition, a BIM-tool. It attempts to be through use of some intelligent objects (road elements, corridors etc), but the fact of the matter is that it is not in essence centered around information modeling; more so on computation and analysis of geometry. It is nevertheless one of the very few options available to us in regards of calculated terrain shaping with results that can be exported to an actual BIM platform.

Revit and Vectorworks, respectively, are both in essence object based BIM tools, with several pros and cons. Revit, as mentioned, is not designed for landscape architects and as such lacks severely in the terrain and vegetation department (the latter non-existant in Civil 3D besides form and graphics), but at the same time works decently with Civil 3D in terms of importing terrain data and is intuitive in its design approach – when it comes to hardscapes. Vectorworks (Landmark) is on the other hand designed for landscape architects and as such comes with a set of appropriate functionality – the terrain shaping tools and planting tools may well be worth the license cost alone for many practitioners – but I feel it operates best on its own, without interference with other software (even though it supports various Autodesk formats), excluding SketchUp. In my experience, most of the tasks I use Civil 3D for as a landscape architect is easier to accomplish in Vectorworks. I could go on in great length about this, but for the sake of this reply I’ll restrain myself.

When it comes to the ‘one and only’ BIM tool for landscape architects, the answer is simple; it doesn’t exist yet. This is because a) we are not a priority for software developers as opposed to architects and civil engineers, and b) there lacks sufficient standards for intelligent objects for site planning, and c) as a professional group we are not clear enough on what functionality we need, and as such the task of the software developer becomes an if not impossible, then a lot more challenging one.

[Jeremiah Farmer]

Why don’t you try out Land F/X? 😉

We’ve been doing BIM for Landscape Architects for eight years now.

We personally don’t like the term “BIM”, as it by definition doesn’t apply to Landscape Architecture.

–J

[Lauren Schmidt]

Actually, BIM is an internationally accepted term that applies to more than just “buildings”. The word “building” is often referred to as a verb and not a noun, while the “modeling” part is also interchanged with “management”. So I would argue that BIM does apply to landscape architecture.

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