Graduated May 08 > worked 8 months > laid off

[Steve_White]

I graduate and moved to Denver. I wanted to choose a place to live before starting a ‘career’. Now I am wondering how smart was it to move from my home base.

Living in Denver is great but here I am with out employment, yearning for experience and office education but there seems to be nothing going on. I know how the market is now and I accept it, but the under lying frustration that I missing out and not getting what I truly want is the struggle.

I was just laid off from a position that was belittling, insulting, and disrespectful. I didn’t learn really anything as my boss didn’t believe in plans, had no formal design education and was running a landscape contracting business more than design build. Though she did liked the term landscape architect (nevermind trying to explain that she shouldn’t be using the term unless she knows what one does).

I have a BLA but I have so little professional experience I struggle with calling myself a landscape architect.

So here I sit, pride and soul a little battered from the last position but glad that it is over. Where to turn is the question. I don’t like being stuck in the position of “I need someone with experience” and “I can’t give it to you” Whats a guy suppose to do.

I am contemplating walking away from it all and opening a pizza place.

Not really sure what I am saying or asking.
Just struggling and looking for postitive attitudes I guess??

Does this sound familiar to anyone else out there?

[Terence J. Fitzaptrick]

Hey Steve! It’s been a while since I’ve caught up with you. I’m sorry to hear about your job, man. Sounds like you’re better off not being there anyway. Hang in there though. I’m sure you’ll end up fine – the economy is just down and out. You should do something epic like live in Colorado and ski as much as humanly possible until some opportunities arise!

I’d say just stay connected with people in the area and open to some part time or even un-paid work just to get your foot in the door at a firm you really like. Once you show them you have the skills they’ll want you. I’m working in a small firm right now in D.C. All it takes is one project to come through the door and they could use a little extra help…you just need to walk in the door and introduce yourself.

Well, hope it helps. I believe in ya man – stick with it! Hope to see you sometime soon and play some golf!

[nca]

Sounds somewhat familiar.

I had good experiences with previous employers, and am also in the Denver area. I worked for landscape contractors before I went back to school at csu. I thought what I experienced at design-builds was the ultimate goal of landscape architecture-backyard patios and xeriscape gardens. In a sense, I feel I’m beginning to come full circle in my philosophy and re-evaluating the reasons I took critical steps to pursue a career in landscape architecture.

I remember working for contractors who would push me to get out and sell much more than hang in the office and draw plans. I didn’t like the sales aspect (read: used car salesman) of selling landscaping, especially when I didn’t necessarily believe that what we were doing was any good.

I think I hit some lucky timing and started a little micro landscape design build of my own after a few years and excelled. I learned to enjoy the sales aspect and the freedom to try new things and challenge myself.

Anyway, I think what many of us are feeling; doubt, boredom, discouragement are natural feelings that come along with a recession. I’m one of those sappy people that believes ‘everything happens for a reason,’ even if it only brings temporary comfort.

In a way, I’m glad I have some extra time to think and evaluate my goals and the things I want from life. My life does not revolve around landscape architecture. I need to spend time outdoors skiing, hiking, biking, climbing. I need to read books and have time to think. I don’t see how one could expect to do anything well without time away and time for oneself. In my opinion, it’s these experiences that feed the creative mind. I think, as cliche as it sounds, anything is in fact possible when you look at bumps in the road as opportunites to chart new paths.

[nca]

Believe it or not, there are jobs in Colorado right now. You might just need to look a little higher than Denver ; )

[Steve_White]

I appreciate your romantic view nick. In fact at I times totally agree. Certainly a roller coaster ride.

I for one do not appreciate or go after the sales positions. Those positions are not the reason I got my BLA and they are not the way i want to collect a paycheck.

IMO when it comes down to sales positions I don’t understand why somebody with landscape design experience would generate leads for someone else. I would do that on my own(cue your thread), plus those business never seem to do quality work…call it arrogance or whatever..I didn’t go to school or 5 years to be a used car salesmen. I have interviewed for those positions before, here in denver, and they are the only interviews that I walk away from thinking i don’t want to work here, for that guy.

Maybe it is regional but I have never seen landscape design as a “sales position” before moving to denver.

I know things will come around, in time, but the day to day is pretty brutal. I have considered school again…MLA?? not sure but I know it would help with networking here in CO. Plus the price tag isn’t bad from CU denver.

Other than checking websites (job site and firm sites) what can you do. I would love to work pro bono just for the experience.

I (and my girlfriend) are willing to move up to the high country at any moment. All I need is a good reason…like a job….

to quote gutter from PCU “I knew it was going to be bad…..i did not know it was going to be this bad”

[Trace One]

Steve, check planning jobs, these are often more low-level and they are willing to hire first -timers. they do help you in your LA interest, as they are often plan review..The downside is they are very hard and thankless. and don’t pay well, although they can be gov. jobs, so are permanent with benefits..
I know they want planners for Afghanastan, I don’t know how adverturous (sp???) you and your girlfriend are..
those types of jobs would be on USAjobs , ‘community planners..” Local planning jobs would be on APA website..
good luck. I am personally fascinated by the continuing tales of woe and discouragement on these posts..I had a very similar experience when I graduated with my MLA in 1987, although part of it was my own fault, taking the idealistic jobs and turning away from the practical..
Landscape Architecture – my siblings who are doctors say things like, “it’s amazing how far you have gotten with that,” with the feeling that their wives, with their three classes in night school, have done a very nice job with their gardens..
And the doctors also come up with zingers like, “gee, maybe if we thought about regions in terms of where the water comes from…” It’s called a ‘watershed ‘ dear..
Def. for love, not money…If you go back to school for a higher degree, I would say go for a law degree and you will have a lot more influence on the landscape..

[nca]

I’ve worked for big firms as well. I was lucky to be involved in all aspects of a wide range of projects over the course of four years from urban planning and design, trails, environmental graphics, parks, and site planning to the smallest backyard gardens.

The point I was trying to make is that sometimes we lose sight of our initial goals and end up floundering in confusion. As far as residential design, I wasn’t insinuating that landscape architects should be sales people, but aren’t we always selling in a sense? Man cannot live on talent alone, no?

I wouldn’t give your time away with free work. If an office has things for you to do, they should pay you. As far as walking away from contractors- there is a lot to be learned, even from the smallest backyard projects about planting, grading, amending soil, irrigation, and masonry unless they’re just mowing lawns. All of that stuff can be fun too. Funny thing is, everyone still holding a job will tell you to work construction like contratcors are just waiting to hire college graduates with zero construction experience and teach them everything they know about seat walls and skid steers.

[Steve_White]

I worked construction before going back to school. That work inspired me to do better with myself and got to where I am today. I struggle most with feeling of wheels spinning and not moving forward at a pace I had been for the last 5 years.

We are always selling, selling to get the job, selling keep the job, selling for the client, selling for company. I didn’t mean to sound rude if i did.

in 3 months these problems will be the least of my worries I hope. More time to worry about the next storm cycle.

We still need to make some turns together sometime. I passed on a trip to st mary’s glacier today. i can’t wait for snow.

[nca]

I think we’re basically oin the same page. Winter’s coming..

[Craig Coronato]

hang in there steve. you may have to move once or twice befre you settle in aplace to establish your career. there is plenty of work in china and the middle east if you are adventurous. LA is a great career – I’ve been doing it for 27 years and would do it all over again.

I moved to Denver in 1984 as a new grad in the middle of a recession (imagine that). I wasn’t laid off but saw the writing on the wall – I was working design and construction for a contractor and making about $4.50/hr with a BLA. I took my uncle up on a job offer in NY to help him run a military aircraft manufacturing shop. I enjoyed the responsilibity and the money but missed LA. When a LA job opened up nearby I jumped on it and built my experience in NY knowing I’d eventually want to get back to Colorado.

Finally moved back to Colorado – where my wife came from – in 1998, after 14 years – and am hopefully here to stay. Bad times effect everybody but provide opportunities if you are creative and flexible. Knowing things were slow at our office in Denver in 2007 I volunteered for a temp 8 month assignment to China last year. It was tough on the family but a great experience for me. When I returned to Denver and my own company was downsizing, I found another (better) job this past April.

My recommendation – stay active in professional groups, get a masters degree, stay visible in the design community, travel, learn as much as you can about your chosen profession, network – that’s what it all about right now. Most of all stay positive – good thngs will happen. good luck.

[Trace One]

I think Amy is wrong about planner pay – they stick @50,000 -70,000 pretty quick, whereas a registered LA is up over $100,000, in my experience.. The Director of Planning for a town of 50,000 will make $70,000 and believe me it is a high profile job, a lot of angst going on there..A registered LA for a national engineering firm (common job) is over $100,000.

That is my experience with planning salaries, amy.. I am sort of amazed you think planners make more than LA’s..Planning is nortoriously low paying..
do the salary surveys say something else? I think they are wrong. I went from Associate Planner at a top salary of $56-80,000,(in Ca. , which skews way high compared to virginia which was $40,000 for same job), into Associate Landscape Arch for $86,000 to $104,000.. Same credentials..

where are you getting the idea that planning pays well? Maybe it has changed in the two years I have been out of it..

[nca]

RLA= $90k+? After how many decades?

I have heard planners make less as well..Sort of all beside the point though isn’t it?

[Steve_White]

Thanks for the comment.

I thought I have been missing something from Amy’s comments.

I actually searched by town around Denver.

Sometimes its overwhelming. still nice to live in CO, not complaining about that

[Ryan A. Waggoner]

Wow Steve, couldn’t relate to anyone better. I graduated at the same time and took a job out of state to only be laid off 9 months later. I feel I gained a little from my first experience, but there was still much to be desired. I decided to move to a place I’d like better (Arizona) and at least be happy with where I live instead of chasing jobs.
I’ve realized that people in our positions are in a tough way, but there may be hope for us soon. While firms aren’t hiring now, we should be in the best positions when things turn around. I am currently freelancing, which has landed me in a full-time position for as long as the work is going well. I’ve tried to retap into my love for the work via connecting with other’s in the industry and working on personal improvement of skills I’d like to eventually practice full time.
It’s easy to be down in times like these, but I like to stay positive and see this as an opportunity to reevaluate my goals. I hope you might be finding some of the same positives. But then again, why not open a pizza place if that would make you happy? I have a friend from my last job that’s throwing in the L.A. towel and opening his own brewery, and he couldn’t be more excited. It’s all about doing whatever it takes to find the thing that makes you happy each day, and I hope you find it. In Colorado I’m sure it’s around every corner. Good luck man!

[Trace One]

Yes, Nick, it is besides the point – sorry, was in planning for years, and I have a bit of an attitude..And actually, now that I think of it, that is probably why I got into planning – at the very beginning levels, there is a secure gov. paid job, as opposed to being like a designer for a nursery..and at that beginning level, perhaps that is where you get the salary benefit..
but yes, the point of this string is to help this gentleman get a job, etc..
sorry!

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