August 13, 2011 at 10:48 pm #161014Alan Ray, RLAParticipant
Jason, they’re “just showing the rich people that they can do what they want “.
More pretzel logic……………August 14, 2011 at 12:15 am #161013Craig AnthonyParticipant
Does he not say that it’s a black reporter in Detroit named Joe Strickland that said the made up “It was a great fire, man!” line? That would be the one Michigan right?
I just have problem when a writer feels like they know the moral standards and values of a large group of people. For him to insinuate that the fools in the street tearing up people’s property all have the same motivation and interest is irresponsible. I’m sure there are a number of these young people that have a legitimate ax to grind, but they have so much rage in their hearts that they just act out in a destructive manner because that’s all they know.
Where’s the good kid that turned bad after he saw his father get beat-down by the cops for no reason, that’s out there getting what he thinks is pay back? What about the guy that’s an anarchist that’s just out in the street doing what he believes in and sees himself as a warrior with a cause? There’s no way I’ll be convinced that there aren’t any want-to-do-well rioters that have busted their a**es all their life just to be turned away from opportunity because of where they’re from. Couldn’t this person be the one that snapped and tossed the first Molotov cocktail?
I can guarantee you there are a number of these people who will get a little older and will be ashamed with what they did. I would never want to describe such people as animals with no chance of being productive citizens.August 14, 2011 at 2:52 pm #161012Rob HalpernParticipant
A more nuanced take on it in the NY Times today:August 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm #161011
OK, I’ll take a bite at the blasting:
“Genetic engineering” huh?! You mean like eugenics? You know who else was a fan of eugenics? Hitler! Of course he lef tout the “peaceful” part and wanted fighters.August 14, 2011 at 6:52 pm #161010
:OAugust 14, 2011 at 8:57 pm #161009
Even if you weren’t a christian…seriously relieved you weren’t serious. *shiver*August 16, 2011 at 4:26 am #161008
Ha! The joke is on YOU, as I have been subscribing to The Hedonistic Imperative for YEARS! You are not going to like what we have planned for people like you! To eliminate human suffering, we must first eradicate those who make us suffer!August 16, 2011 at 11:46 am #161007
These riots happened shortly after the kids broke up for the school holidays and under 16’s of afro-caribbean origin did most of the damage. Most of these sought props for their preferred lifestyle from x-box units to trainers and tops. Almost all else, including fires, was the standard trashing that follows illegitimate activity including the burning of a Sony warehouse holding copies of a few bands new output/albums that had to be remade. Most of the juveniles came from local authority sink estates, as did many older and non blacks, including women, pictured in newspapers though still relatively young even if a parent. Many of these were pictured carrying alcohol and cigarettes, not bread or clothes for their babies. Interviewed people moaned that taxes were too high while wearing 100 quid jeans, dear trainers, etc. It is unlikely any of these have ever paid tax and the same applies to their parents. Hotspots were in well known black areas though this is unfair. In Brixton, for example, where the riots were 26 years ago, about 23% of the population are black. Another few per cent are of mixed race but all the whites are at work by day and asleep at night. So you see black people only, plus the usual elderly, halt and lame, in town by day. Most of the black adults work in low paid jobs early or late, often as cleaners or night workers. Their children do not have parents at home at night and are allowed to stay up late in the holidays anyway. Adults caught were usually opportunists and ranged from a primary school teacher to a graphic artist. There were also planned thefts as an opportunist activity including the taking of ATMs from walls using stolen heavy tools, especially in Manchester. In the Brixton riots there was genuine unrest though there are Yardie Jamaican gang and general drug oriented interests. The current problem, for the first time, included gangs that did not exist then and have been bubbling away for several years making the areas of London more like the New York and LA gang situation but, if firearms are available they are basic and automatic weapons almost unknown here. Even the police weapons are fixed at one bang a pull.
We have ignorant generations and an underclass bred by successive governments from pink to blue, or left to right, so that education and more middle class aspirations are not present in the poorer community. Home ownership was encouraged and many bought their local authority homes though this is not common on the relevant estates. Small flats are, in any event, less conducive to this than terraced houses or better homes. There are comparisons, therefore, with kettling or stacking all the socially and educationally deprived like in a prison. The kids there are aspirational or seek to be elite only in terms of fashion, labels, etc. but learn political talk from rap songs and and so on often learned by heart. There are healthy expressions of this through street dance and art, for example, but not enough and not widely enough spread through the communities or racial groups or gangs.
Design wise, the most successful schemes from a social point of view are where homes are reversed onto secondary shops and facilities in a village style area and road schemes do not allow easy access to the main centres or industrial ones. There should be no rat runs, unlit walkways, subways or paths to the main area save through a carefully considered route and this local village or, in gang terms, turf, should have its own primary education and secondary should be on neutral turf not via someone else’s. Ways to and from main centres should have bottlenecks that can be policed but a tree and other street furniture-lined wide pavement, by a normal road with parking facilities and crossings, are actually better for access for all though planning needs separate rear delivery facilities as with mall estates. Kids are out of place anywhere except on the pavements with other people and rear access roads can have entry contolled to ensure bona fide parties rather than young folk in hot hatchbacks parking to demonstrate their sound systems. That said, some such meets have been facilitated, policed and successfully controlled in areas where there are few residents to bother and police intelligence is boosted from information obtained.
Football/soccer and other facilities requiring only flat rough grass kept short and visible from home’s windows, with a few low rises and falls for lounging and trees planted to allow for eyelines and observation allow best appearance and use of space though with hardened routes for emergency/maintenance vehicle access, parking and maybe mobile sales (eg ice cream vans) seem best. Childrens playgrounds may form a part of this area and social facilities like mobile playbuses and libraries, etc. can be parked nearby. Youth meeting points in dear metal shelters have become popular but are obviously contrived and are dear to keep clean. It is possible to make shelters more attractive but still vandal proof. CCTV is common here and it is to these, largely, we owe all the pictures of looters. It is possible to align these without giving dear total coverage provided someone is actually monitoring them. Strange noises can be played to be heard only by young people that gets on their nerves, interferes with music litening and discourages them from congregating right outside any shops. This often worries older people and they do not like to go out for fear of barracking, etc. and the noises have been a hit with shopkeepers. It is with all this in mind that you can contrive new things, though a small fishing pond and water features are good for encouraging calm. Many are switched off, drained, etc. for cost and health and safety reasons but safety can be designed into anything and solar panels employed. I hope to have contributed something.August 16, 2011 at 2:58 pm #161006
Wow, that was informative! Sounds like you’ve had direct involvement with the planning of a lot of these places. You use some very British terms. Could you please explain a few of them? I watched a lot of British sitcoms and Monty Python growing up, but these are unfamiliar! Kettling? Barracking? Also, your use of “dear” is unusual. You seem to use it like “coveted” or “desired”.August 16, 2011 at 8:36 pm #161005
I don’t think his take was offensive at all…I am surprised you don’t see the difference in what he posted and the article you posted. There is a difference.August 16, 2011 at 8:48 pm #161004Trace OneParticipant
Here’s some Brits who think differently. They want to emulate Germany – strong Unions, strong social safety nets, great economy.August 18, 2011 at 9:07 pm #161003
Oh sorry = kettling is a new term for crowding protestors, for example, into a small area, barracking is generally harranguing someone and dear is expensive.
All the police pictures displayed tonight on a TV programme covering all the cities in the riots and incuding actual cctv recording of people breaking into shops, requesting informers to ring in, were of young black males save as follows: There was a young white woman throwing things at police, a few white faces in crowds though they were not doing anything and there were some white or mixed race pictures displayed, especially re manchester and liverpool. These are very mixed race, integrated, us-againt-them cities though the majority were not only young and black still, but apparently afro-caribbean. I would be surprised if any had first generation African parents for example and no-one seemed so dark as to be of those relevant African tribes or of, for example, the many black Brazillian people we have here. A police raid was shown (there are lots every morning all over England since these riots) recovering over £30000 of luxury goods including handbags(purses) from one flat. Viewers were asked to inform on anyone with a new plasma TV though I think this was aimed more at folk in Manchester where the Bang and Olufsen shop was cleaned out. It showed the entry to this and other places from cctv including a place you sell your goods to and reclaim them later like a pawn shop. Folk were taking musical instruments and TVs though they also stock sound equipment and jewellery. It also showed a cellphone shop being broken into. No-one appeared to be stealing food and there was only one clothes shop shown where 2 police officers were run down by a car. Two people have been charged with suspicion of attempted murder but they are still looking for the car and information. I hope this assists.August 18, 2011 at 9:10 pm #161002
Charles’ baby is Poundbury. Google it and check the prices there. There are no council estates as far as I know and everyone I have ever seen associated with the place is white.
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