[Jon Quackenbush]

The greenest building is an existing building.

[Jon Quackenbush]

will do.

[Jon Quackenbush]

You have way too much faith in the system man and I am not sure why.  My “cynicism” has been cultivated over many years, as I have witnessed the whole sale purchase of our government.  That story you mentioned about your congressman is touching, but politicians are gifted as selling a narrative so I would observe caution.  Are all politicians crooks?  No, but enough of them are and on such a scale that makes me absolutely furious, which is an emotion well past cynicism.

Politicians aren’t working for us, the system isn’t working for us.  It is as clear as day to me.  You don’t like my cynicism, but that is fine, I am still fighting for you man.

[Jon Quackenbush]

The country we actually live in contradicts your entire position.  If we lived in the America of the textbooks you read in high school, then sure, you would be 100% right.  But we live in a more scurilous version.  We only have the illusion of choice at this point.  Look at congress, it is all millionaires and mostly white and are easily bought by lobbyists so that they govern against the greater interest for those who fund their campaigns.  If they aren’t millionaires when they are elected, they are when they leave office… why is that I wonder when their salaries aren’t that lucrative?  There is also an illusion of a great difference between the two major parties, when in fact there really is only a difference in rhetoric (aka theater).  The results are the same, those that fund them are the same, therefore they govern the same. 

It is funny you mention putting all power into one place, because that is exactly why there is an OWS movement.  All the power is in the hands of corporations and the upper 1% of this country.  I don’t want socialism as a political system, I want the country we are promised in our constitution, a free and just society and there is much work to be done for that to be the case. Don’t give up.

We are living in an oligarchy Jordan, and that is the polar opposite of the concept of America.  I think you will find if you study the history of our country, you will agree with that assessment, I know you will.

[Jon Quackenbush]

It was a ‘simplistic’ comment but it was based on the notion that the civil rights movement achieved a legal victory, not an economic one. For the bottom two-thirds of African-Americans, you can argue (from an economic standpoint) that life is worse today than it was when Martin Luther King marched in Selma in 1965. King understood that racial equality was impossible without economic justice.  My point is middle class whites are now beginning to be in the same boat that african americans have been in for the past century, and are now screaming “its not fair!”.  That could be why there aren’t many people of color at the OWS rallies, yet…

At my OWS rally in Albany, Ny we have discussed just going limp if the cops were to come, however we have a police chief who believes in the right of peaceful assembly and has spurned the governor on his wanting to crack down.

@Steve — “democratic socialism” came from the mouth of Martin Luther King and he was much smarter than you, and he didn’t smoke anything.  And you missed the point entirely.  He said, and I said, call it whatever you will, but there “has to be a greater distribution of wealth in this country for everyone”.  Apparently you disagree…. you need to go to AAA because all of that binge drinking is making you sound like an aggressive putz.

@Jordan — Socialism would cause corruption?  You know what country you live in, right?  Tell me how effective capitalism is at spurning corruption?  Please, humor me.

[Jon Quackenbush]

Just be mindful of what you are fighting for! Do we really want socialism as the answer here?

    Democratic Socialism actually sounds pretty good to me.  I would yield to MLK’s vision of society over Bill Gates & Steve Jobs any day.  Free market capitalism has proven to be inhumane time and time again.

        We have a country where Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerburg(sp?) all made it to the top in a short period of time because of a good idea and some energy. That alone tells me that the American Dream is healthy.

    Keep in mind their version of the American Dream is such an exception as to border on comical.  Don’t drink that cool-aid, you have a better shot of winning the lottery three consecutive times than you do being included in the short-list you just mentioned.  The American Dream isn’t being a tycoon, it is having enough money to pay for a small plot of land while you feed your family with enough time left over to enjoy the fruits of your labor when your body starts to give out.  That is a dream man (literal and conceptual at this point), don’t you see it?  As an addendum, all those goodies that Apple makes are made in a China where workers and environmental rights are not really an issue… and not in a good way.  Nice dream you have there.

        Now we are not all going to get that rich, but if you have a truly good product/service. With capitalism it will make it. I want innovation and I benefit even if I am not the one collecting the CEO reward for making it.  It is a tough sell that you do not benefit from corporations.

        It is a tougher sell when you say we are better off because of corporations.  Just because I can surf the internet on a stupid phone and drive around in a new car doesn’t mean our lives are enriched or better off.  I could easily make the argument otherwise (especially when you consider electoral politics and environmental issues), but it may fall on deaf ears. 

There is so much evidence to counter your arguement that I literally do not know where to start. 

[Jon Quackenbush]

He isn’t too blind to see it, he either disagrees or isn’t looking.  He is one of the 99% even if he doesn’t know it or believe it.  I am fighting for him too.

There are within the movement, many camps and not all of them are centered around jobs, though they all are focused on some inequality and/or injustice.  Want to really get a grip on it?  Revisit what MLK had said:

“For years, I labored with the idea of reforming the existing institutions in the South, a little change here, a little change there,” King said shortly before he was assassinated. “Now I feel quite differently. I think you’ve got to have a reconstruction of the entire system, a revolution of values.”

King was killed in 1968 when he was in Memphis to support a strike by sanitation workers. By then he had begun to say that his dream, the one that the corporate state has frozen into a few safe clichés from his 1963 speech in Washington, had turned into a nightmare. King called at the end of his life for massive federal funds to rebuild inner cities, what he called “a radical redistribution of economic and political power,” a complete restructuring of “the architecture of American society.” He grasped that the inequities of capitalism had become the instrument by which the poor would always remain poor.

“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism,” King said, “but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all of God’s children.”

Want to really know?  I would focus on the struggles of people of color whom had to deal with what middle class whites are now beginning to understand for generations.

[Jon Quackenbush]

Exactly.

These inequities are what drive the OWS protests. People don’t want handouts. It’s not a class uprising and we don’t want civil war — we want just the opposite. We want everyone to live in the same country, and live by the same rules. It’s amazing that some people think that that’s asking a lot.

[Jon Quackenbush]

[Jon Quackenbush]

Chris Hedges gets it.  He is the most coherent and inspiring voice of the movement, and I find great inspiration in his words.

As far as your questions, I honestly have no idea and am not really qualified to say.  I do know that settling for a seat at the table is paramount to giving up.  I don’t want a seat at the table, I want a new table.  I believe politicians who fear us will better represent us, and they haven’t feared us in my lifetime.  It is time to change that.

Once that happens, then we can start talking about transitioning it into a political movement.  Until then, I am happy and comfortable with the nebulousness, as I do not want to put the proverbial horse before the carriage.  That is why the elites, and the degenerate system of corporate power they sustain, are in big trouble. That is why they keep asking what the demands are.

They don’t understand what is happening.

 

[Jon Quackenbush]

The scary thing is that the consensus of the OWS people seems to be that the government (politicians) should step in and take over these private institutions of which they are responsible for corrupting.

 

Where did you gleam this insight?  I am part of OWS and I think electoral politics is a farce.  I have no faith in the system as currently constructed.  I don’t think tinkering with the corporate state will work. We will either be plunged into neo-feudalism and environmental catastrophe or we will wrest power from corporate hands. This radical message, one that demands a reversal of the corporate coup, is one you should consider core to the movement.

The Occupy Wall Street movement, like all radical movements, has obliterated the narrow political parameters. It proposes something new. It will not make concessions with corrupt systems of corporate power. It holds fast to moral imperatives regardless of the cost. It confronts authority out of a sense of responsibility. It is not interested in formal positions of power. It is not seeking office. It is not trying to get people to vote. It has no resources. It can’t carry suitcases of money to congressional offices or run millions of dollars of advertisements. All it can do is ask us to use our bodies and voices, often at personal risk, to fight back. It has no other way of defying the corporate state.

This rebellion creates a real community instead of a managed or virtual one. It affirms our dignity. It permits us to become free and independent human beings.

[Jon Quackenbush]

This is a perfect economic summary of what fuels the growing body that is the Occupy movement, thanks.

The power elite have desperately tried to tar the movement with a series of calumnies, branding protesters as hippies, anti-Semites, drug addicts, leftists, anarchists and communists. They have so far been unable to blunt the fundamental truth the movement imparts: We have undergone a corporate coup. It has to be reversed.

 

[Jon Quackenbush]

I love this stuff, thanks for this!

[Jon Quackenbush]

“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism,” ML King said, “but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all of God’s children.”

[Jon Quackenbush]

Did you expect an essay as a response?  I could go into more depth, however that isn’t required to make my point.  Do you need statistics to reinforce my “platitudes”, because I am capable of reciting them for you.

Truth is, I am not that smart.  I have fed the beast for a majority of my life, and I am full of regret as a result.  I have supported the institutions whom I now resent.  The truth is my friend, that we do have a common enemy, regardless if you concur, one I didn’t create it nor imagine.  Pretending it isn’t there isn’t going to help us man.  

The occupiers have not come to work within the system –we tried that. We are not pleading with Congress for electoral reform–we tried that. We know electoral politics is a farce and have found another way to be heard and exercise power. We have no faith, nor should we, in the political system or the two major political parties that are two sides of the same coin. We are aware the press will not amplify our voices, because they are bought and paid for too.  It is obvious to us that the economy serves only the oligarchs, so we are forming our own communal system– and it is a beautiful thing.

This movement is an effort to take our country back, and you may consider my embrace a contribution.  The cooperative incentive is to join with hundreds of thousands of our brothers and sisters who have reached the end of our vast well of patience.  There are work groups who make logistical decisions, and the general assembly gathers and makes large policy decisions.  I have been a part of it.  Let me tell you that it is pure democracy, and you are missing out on it due to your skepticism and disdain for a movement you clearly do not yet understand.

You seem smart.  Focus that intelligence in lifting up your fellow brothers and sisters instead of branding them as lazy malcontents.  I promise you you’ll feel good about it.

[Author]

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