[Lynn Wilhelm]

That’s an interesting idea, Meg.
I also like to count/edit manually for totals. A red marker really helps. The weird thing for me is that I can no longer print larger than 11 x 17 at my office. I’ve outsourced to FedEx. It just takes getting used to printing smaller–or maybe in sections. (I do save paper and ink!) I always have a “draft” layout for in-office printing. Big plans can be tough, but doable.
To save more paper and ink, I’ll try any online technique.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

Hi Rick,
While I agree with you about well labelled plans for field use (and for presentations–well pretty much all the time) I can really appreciate individual plant symbols. Even when reading a plan in the field, identifiable plant symbols are really helpful. It’s really easy to determine what goes where, with only one glance at the label for a symbol. Layouts go faster than with plain circles.

I carefully choose plants for plans and don’t appreciate substitiutions without permission. I have a good reason for almost every plant in a plan. There’s a big difference between an Otto Luyken Laurel and a Schip Laurel, or an Autumn Cheer Encore Azalea or an Autumn Sunset. Abelia Rose Creek is very different from any other Abelia, a Waterfall Japanese Maple is very different from a Seiryu Japanese Maple and so on. I always check availability of plants when working on a plan, it comes from working design-build. I know plant availability can change and a phone call or email is all it takes to discuss changes. In my experience, what some people think is a suitable substitution differs from what I think would be.
That said, I have seen many planting plans that leave a lot to be desired, with plants that grow 6′ high to grow in front of a window 3′ off the ground. I’m not perfect, but I try to put the right plant in the right place. As long as the person attempting to make the substitute can tell me why that’s a better choice, I will concede, if they can’t I may ask them to look harder for the correct plant or try another choice.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

Andrew, I colored some of my symbols using a gradient fill. I put it on a separate layer to turn on when I want the color. I was pleased to see I can put them on my palette and still get the off layer into the dwg. With the layer on, the color doesn’t go to the back on the palettes–it shows up in dwg as saved, but not on the palette–weird.

But…the colors are totally opaque. I sent them to the back on individual blocks, but they’ll block out other things in the dwg. Are there any transparent colors available? i wanted to create some shadows–they’d be colored fills too as I’m only working in 2D, but I want to be able to see through them too. I’m not used to using color in AC. Any more ideas?
Anyone know how to do make gradient fills (is that the same as solid fills) transparent? Do I need to start another discussion for that?

[Lynn Wilhelm]

There really are many ways to do things in AutoCad. I’ve gotten so many ideas from all of you, thanks to everyone who responded. I’ve created my schedule using a table in AC. I won’t be using a separate spreadsheet for now. I also won’t be using symbols with attributes because I still use so many that aren’t assigned to certain plants species or cultivar–I may change this later.

First I created a table style. Then I set the style current. Then set up my table. I put it on it’s own layer.
I tried setting up my table in a reference file hoping to put it on a tool palette–so I could drag the filled in table into a model. Sadly, I found out I can only put the blank table in the palette. Unless I make it a block I can’t drag it in through design center either–if I made it a block I think I could put it on the tool palette. I might try that later. So for now I’ve put it on my template dwg, in model, not paper space. I’ll use a separate viewport to show it in layouts.

My initial table is minimal with only a couple of data rows. It’s super easy to add rows into tables and it uses the properties of the selected row. I’ll add more rows as I add plants. It will be easy to remove rows when I have fewer plants than shown on my template.

By the way, I can’t see any need to xref my tables, each is going to be specific to each plan and viewports let me do all I need to move them around in paper space.

I really like putting in plant symbols so I’m doing what Thomas said and inserting the blocks into the cells. This will make it easier to add and delete rows without moving the plant symbols. I do like the idea of putting in the symbols at full size, but it really makes the table big for trees. So I think I’ll do trees at a 0.5 scale value, large shrubs at 0.75 and others at full size. My line weights are set so some won’t look so great, I hope it works.

I took Andrew’s method of putting both names in one cell of the table,common on top and botanical below. This also gives more vertical room in the row for the plant symbol. This produced my one disappointment with the table–it doesn’t do multiline text–just like Andrew said. So you have to play around to get them in there. I’ve set it to middle center to best fit the text. I really wanted it to the left of the cell, but it didn’t work so well. Another problem with left justify was that the text butted right up to the cell line–yuck! I tried fixing this with the margin setting. If I made the cell borders invisible, this wouldn’t be a big deal. Anyone know how to fix this?

I do hope this helps some other people as well.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

By the way, it won’t make your cell smaller if you make the symbol smaller. Just seems to enlarge the cell.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

Yep, or just use the ribbon–did I ever mention I like the ribbon. Choose the cell, in the ribbon you’ll see an insert menu and click “block”. The insert block dialogue box opens. The fit options in 2010 are auto-fit or you can specify a scale value. So, if you want to keep the symbols the same size–to fit into the cell, use auto-fit. Or if you want symbols bigger–I think I’ll want my tree symbols bigger, select the scale value and the cell will resize. I love it!!

Pretty cool. Now I need to figure out how to get this table into my tool palette without making it a block (which I’d need to explode when I drop it in a model). Do I need to make it into a block? I’m checking this out now.
The alternative is to put it in my template dwg–in the model. But I’d like to have it my palettes.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

Great, Thomas. I’m working on my table right now and this is perfect. I was wondering how to do that without moving the symbols up and down.
I assume the cell is formatted for a block?

[Lynn Wilhelm]

Thomas, what’s the point of using “insert block”. Why not just use set them up in a tool palette or just copy and paste from the model (maybe you put your table in paper space, then copy isn’t any easier).

The only advantage to using insert block I can see is that you’ll get a list of only the blocks used in the dwg (if you keep it purged) –is that it or is there something I’m missing.

I don’t use insert block at all, design center and the tool palettes give me all I seem to need.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

I don’t think they are using Excel to create a separate list. They simply paste the spreadsheet page onto the dwg. Someone said they do it in paper space, I don’t know if all do, though.
I still think they have to copy and paste or somehow change a main template of the schedule to make it conform to each plan. Same as the way you do it in AC.

On the other hand you may be right, maybe they use it for some kind of inventory control as well. Doubt it, though.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

Wow, this is cool, Andrew. Let me see if I get this: Your main symbols are created on the 0 layer, but you also add detail and color to them on other layers. Maybe like “shrub color”, “shrub detail” or “shrub shadow”. So is the block saved on the 0 layer?

I’ve never really done color in AC, but now I’ve discovered gradients and other things and might try it a bit. I used to just print then add color to a plan if I wanted.

Would color and shadows add a lot more to each file? If you keep those detail layers frozen, I guess it won’t make much difference in regen, but does it take up lots more room?

I’ve seen symbols before that had stuff that didn’t show up unless exploded, it always confused me, maybe now I understand.

Now, if I combine your system with James’ attributes I could have some really great blocks. 🙂

I’m going to play with blocks now. It’s too hot to go outside–supposed to be 103 today!

[Lynn Wilhelm]

As far as using the plans in the field, labelled plans are the way to go. I think it’s really a pain to have to continuously refer to a schedule on site to figure out what plant goes where. I don’t like plans that have cryptic labels pointing to plants.
The only reason I’ve found plant schedules helpful is in bidding a plan or shopping for plants.

At the DB company where I used to work, I did the plan, then the proposal, so a plant schedule made no difference at all. Plants were ordered by the buyer from the proposal. So my plans were created to speak to clients and the crew in the field. Schedules don’t help with either of those.

Now that I’m just doing design work I find schedules helpful for clients shopping for plants (they’d rather not carry a large plan to a nursery) or for the contractors bidding it. I if I do a schedule, I can easily create a letter sized pdf for clients to print up. They won’t even have to take the plan to the copy shop.
I’ll always use complete labels, never abbreviations.

I like the idea of a counting layer. I already use an area and hatch outline layer that’s set to not print, would be easy to add this.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

This is exactly what I’d like to aim for, James. Can you provide more info on creating smart blocks?
I know you do this in block editor.
Does it give you enough flexibility? What if you use a plant you never used before? Do you create a new symbol or just adjust an existing one? Or can you just add the new info into the table (effectively NOT adding it’s associated attributes)? In other words, can you overwrite the table here and there if you need to?

I do suppose you have to be careful to purge and watch for double blocks to be sure the count is correct. Can you use the symbol in the table or will that make your count incorrect?

[Lynn Wilhelm]

I do love the tool palettes. Took some time to set them up with my reference files, but it’s great.
I like your system. Never thought of routinely scaling up the symbols. I just have various sizes smshrub1, shrub1, lgshrub3, vlgshrub, etc. Just tweak a little when I need to.

I have a few symbols I always like to use for the same plant, the blocks carry the name. The one you show above for Aucuba is one I use for KO roses. Have one for Sky Pencil Hollies, another for Lenten Rose and more. That way, I don’t have to change them at all, just drop em in.

Back to 0 layer. My symbols are set up for the correct layer. That way, if I don’t have the layer in a dwg, the block will bring it in. I think I might have drawn them on layer 0, but saved them to the layer I’ll want. Is this a big mistake? I haven’t found it to be yet. The colors don’t change and it doesn’t matter what layer is current when I drop them into the model. It just means mine can’t be as versatile as yours can be–but I don’t really need them to be.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

I knew you’d say that, Andrew.
I do the same thing you do with color to determine lineweights. But I don’t work with my symbols/blocks as carefully as you do.
I’ve created (revised) them with colors already set to determine lineweight. I will sometimes explode them if I change the size enough–and reset the color if I want.

I have plant (for perennials), shrub and tree layers with set colors, but the symbols don’t always match, and sometimes I don’t want them to, because they have interior details I want to be lighter.

I never pay attention to byblock properties–is this something I should be looking at? Along with many other things I’ve learned to do properly, I’ve only recently started seriously working with blocks. I used to just use blocks as they were set up in the company (and they weren’t done correctly) or create them to make it easier to work. I still think there’s more I can learn.

[Lynn Wilhelm]

Did you know you can import data directly into an AC table from excel? I haven’t done it much, but it does the same thing that you mention.
That way one could get the symbols in.

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