Leaving LA for Civil

Well, considering you ONLY have (4) yrs. of exp. practicing Landscape Architecture…I feel sure you’re NOT making very much $$$. LAs do start out @ pretty low salaries. However, after you have gained substantial experience designing a variety of projects & have 6 to 10 yrs. of design experience…you should have opportunities to earn a higher salary (at the same firm or at a NEW LA job).

However, that being said, I believe that in our profession, the BEST way to earn a TOP annual income is to “go out on your own”…not working for other LA’s. I put in close to (15) yrs. before going out on my own @ age 41…took me (2) yrs. to get my (1) man start-up practice up and running. I found a niche with Multi-Family projects (as I got a ton of experience designing with a Dallas firm for 14 yrs.). Then, was getting well over a 6 figure income for (17) years…before I began to slow down.

I don’t know WHY you’re doing just “autoCAD” drawings of fences and rails??? During my LA career, I have designed Single Family Homes (all sizes and price ranges); Upscale Multi-Family communities in 8 different States; Commercial Office Developments; Hotels; Restaurants; Shopping Centers; University Athletic Facilities; Streetscapes; University Student Apartment Communities @ 8 major Universities…just a wide variety of project types…many interesting projects.

When I began my LA career in 1977, there was no such thing as “autoCAD”…but, even when I started my own practice, I was just too busy to stop and learn “autoCAD”…so, I stayed with what I know I did best “Hand Drawings”. Never had a disappointed client or one that asked for drawings to be on “autoCAD” either. I have designed well over (500) projects to date…all “By Hand”. And, I don’t regret my LA career…it’s been very good to me.

Now, I don’t HAVE to design anything…but, I do continue to design Upscale Residential Projects as I really don’t wish to give up designing just yet.

I would suggest that you at least “consider” looking around at the LA job market out there…look for a descent sized LA firm in a location that’s desirable to you…one where you could “learn & grow” your experience. Then, you could consider “going out on you own”. I have some good LA friends who went on their own…have 5 to 12 LA’s working for them…and I have no doubt that they are sitting on major 7 figure bank accounts. So, I KNOW…it’s a “myth” that you can’t make a seriously good annual income as an LA. I just believe that you probably NEED about (10) yrs. of solid design experience to make that happen for yourself…not just 4 yrs.

IMO, if you abandon you LA career and go to work for a CE firm…you very easily could “forever” be stuck doing “autoCAD” production drawings & zero design…..with no real future.

Good Luck!
Bob

To WBS……What do YOU know??? You’re a “Student” in California. IMO, the biggest problem with the “younger generations” is they lack a “work ethic”. They want everything handed to them…even FREE, if they can get it. The point I was making above is….having ONLY (4) years of experience in the field of Landscape Architecture is really STILL at the “entry level”. AND, a lot of LA firms do not have LAs & CEs.

There is a big overlap between the two professions. Civil is a more technical discipline, but depending on what types of projects the CE office does you can be pretty well prepared to be an asset right away in a CE office. Also, depending on what types of projects an LA firm does or an individual wants to do, you can have a competitive advantage over other LAs moving forward than those that don’t have that experience in a CE office.

I’ve read so many posts on this and other forums of LAs bitching about other professions doing “our work”. I believe a lot of that is because the LA profession no longer holds its ground as a profession solely based on pretty renderings and planting plans. Those are now more easily done by other professions than they used to be because of technology. Many LAs rely on others for the more technical aspects of site planning which isolates them as a supplemental design asset rather than a full asset. When that happens there has to be a lot of revision or additional communication with other design team professions than necessary which slows down the process and can be more frustrating to the design team than bypassing the LA and doing it themselves. I know this because I was on the other side of it for 12 years. …. some LAs are a PITA to work with.

You don’t surrender your landscape architecture education and experience by working in a CE office. You build on it. You also bring something into the CE office that they might not have. I don’t understand the us against them mentality.

IMO….LAs and CE’s are like the “oil & water” analogy. VERY, very different professions! Andrew probably understands this better than most of us. LA’s are creative, we actually know how to draw, and just think differently than CE’s think. Civil Engineering is all about “math” and “computer software”. Personally, I wouldn’t in a million years considered being a CE.

CE’s here in The State of Texas are (by law) allowed to produce Planting Plans…which is ridiculous. Unless a CE firm has a qualified LA on staff, they have no business doing “Landscape Architecture” related design work.

I have worked with dozens of CE firms during my LA career…some were good, others were not. I’ve surprisingly come across some CE Grading Plans on large sites that were VERY problematic…where they made my job creating a Landscape Architectural Grading Plan very challenging. And, I can grade ANY site, no matter how flat or steep it is. Then, you have CE attitudes to deal with from time to time…where they look down on Landscape Architects…this is well known throughout the Landscape Architecture profession.

I agree with Andrew…switching from LA (after a 4 yr. LA degree & 4 yrs. of experience) wouldn’t be a very wise move. You need to spend a few more years accumulating solid experience as a Landscape Architect…even if you have to move to a different LA firm to get that experience. IMO, if you’re an LA and you go to work for a CE firm, you will most likely be looked upon as a “second class citizen”…you’re NOT one of them. Just an opinion.

I’m not sure why Bob said he agreed with me about not switching to CE. I thought that I made a really good case as to why I think it is a good idea. I think it is a good idea even if you want to practice as an LA later on.

If someone can not get hired as an LA for whatever reason, why wouldn’t that person entertain a different field?

If landscape architecture is such a strong discipline, why would we not be able to thrive in a related field?

If you got paid better why wouldn’t you switch?

If you were to learn more why wouldn’t you?

Landscape Architecture is not a religion. It is a gray area profession caught between landscape design and civil engineering. Individuals within it can be somewhere nearer to either end of that spectrum or right in the middle. Individuals within the profession sometimes choose to be nearer to one end or the other. That is the beauty of this gray profession – it is diverse.

The thing that goes with that is that this gray profession is overlapped or encroached from both ends. I for one don’t have a problem with any of that. Be good at what you do and try to do what you are good at no matter where in that spectrum that lies.

It is all good!

No….it’s NOT “all about the money”. But, I totally understand, you have to earn a living.

IMO, the main reason you had so much trouble finding an LA job (between 2008 and 2013) was because, Obama wa our President during that period….it was a difficult time for EVERY Landscape Architect & design firm. If you’re in the LA profession long enough…you’ll experience UPs & DOWNs in our economy. The U.S. economy is doing much better now and unemployment, in spite of the virus scare, is doing very well.

Personally, I still don’t understand WHY anyone would spent $100K and study Landscape Architecture @ a University & then, just throw in the towel after a couple of years. Even though I put in close to 15 yrs. designing for (2) different LA firms (for less than I believe I should have been earning)…I hung in there and was just a “sponge”…learned everything I could from every LA around me. It paid off when I went out on my own…which was 28 yrs. ago & I have MORE than made up for those “too low salaries” from my first 15 years in the LA profession. Sometimes, it just really takes “perseverance” to reach your goals.

Nothing in this LIFE comes easily, at least, nothing worth having. Even if I was SUPER talented with “autoCAD” and had an opportunity (at an earlier age) to join a C.E. firm…..no way. Early on, even while @ Texas A&M, I had a very strong “passion” for Landscape Architecture…now, 43 years later, I have absolutely no regrets.

However, that being said, everyone has to find their own PATH to follow….whatever makes you happy.
Enjoy the “journey”…..times goes very, very fast! GOOD LUCK!

Bob

Throwing this out there…My first job with a CE firm was the worst, terrible culture and horribly uninteresting work. My current job with a CE firm is the best. A LA is second in command and the work can be very interesting. I, unfortunately, spent a few decades in sales. The good news is there are CE firms who value LAs.