June 22, 2011 at 2:45 am #161941Tosh KParticipant
I’m guessing the “bail out” ensured thousands of people got paid and their companies stayed afloat – personally I’d like to see this type of lending to small businesses, but at least it kept a lot of folks employed and companies afloat. Sounds like the government came out ahead in most of these cases (stock market has risen since most of this paper was bought).
As far as government spending affecting the construction industry I know of quite a few firms with GSA work (border stations, embassies and a fair number of government buildings) and judging by the amount of construction from Boston to DC, a good many folks are keeping their jobs that otherwise would have been lost. Also know a few folks working on stormwater/street infrastructure projects on the east coast with federal moneys from EPA/DOT/FHA, most with 3~5 year contracts so $350k/(3 or 5) would be $70~$120k/job/yr (subtract unemployment benefits and it’s $45~$100?), I’d assume there will be tangential jobs created by these contracts as well so the cost doesn’t look too shabby.
By green job creation, I hope people think what will people want next, instead of what can I lobby the government to throw money at… I recall speakers at HS graduation and freshman orientation telling us that 70% of us will be working in jobs that didn’t exist as an idea at the time; just gotta figure out the next Google or Facebook, maybe some of them will be “green.”June 22, 2011 at 5:53 am #161940Ben JohnsonParticipant
Get a life and join the Tea Party…..June 22, 2011 at 11:34 am #161939Andrew Garulay, RLAParticipant
We are now so politically correct that we judge success by speculating about how much worse it would have been. If unemployment was at 15%, the current mind set is “it would have been 20%”. If your house value dropped 30% instead of 20%, “it could have dropped 50%”. If gas were at $5 instead of $4, “it could have been $6”.June 22, 2011 at 3:38 pm #161938
Yes, very odd time. We are having a hard time deciding what is a wiser financial decision. In the past that would have been buy a house…but with home prices dropping and student loans accruing interest we are learning to take a different route. I think similarly there is not one way to more jobs or green jobs…I really think it is going to be hard work by individuals. We shouldn’t wait for job creation and we should be very cautious with financial decisions. Creative and tenacious individuals need to step up before we really see ourselves pulling out of this.
Jon and I were talking last night about our business and the fact that we feel like we are doing well and about how we read/hear that we need to prepare for the ebb and flow of business ownership. But all the rules seemed to have changed and like you mention Andrew we realize that we are probably in an “ebb” but have no concept of what a “flow” would look like. haha. Will it get better or worse? We have no clue! I do think there are still major issues with banks…as we have applied for small business loans that we qualify for but that has paperwork repeatedly “lost” and where they repeatedly access incorrect information. As a small business it makes it very hard to grow when you can’t even get a $6,000 revolving line of credit. They would much rather we just use our credit card. I think the banks have a stranglehold on much of the economy.June 22, 2011 at 8:19 pm #161937
Creating government jobs is not the same as creating private sector jobs. Every goverment employee costs the tax payers money…a lot of money. Between salary, overtime, benefits, perks, vacation days, mandatory raises, ect. that all comes out of our, the tax payers, pockets. They may be creating a job but it’s one that’s costing the country money just to put less money into the system where private sector jobs just put money into the system.
In the case where private firms/companies are hired to do work, be it design, construction, review, etc. those projects create work and stimulate the economy but hiring someone as an employee of DOT, DEP or some other agency just costs the country money. Not that they’re not important…they definitely are, it’s just not the same positive effect on the economy as private sector jobs create.
I like you’re stimulus idea!! Seriously…The stimulus packages would have had a much greater and more positive impact if the money went straight the citizens (not illegals but citizens only) and not the banks, corporations, etc. People with money in their pockets are happier people who spend the money stimulating the economy.June 22, 2011 at 8:20 pm #161936
Exactly!June 22, 2011 at 8:35 pm #161935Craig AnthonyParticipant
I think you’re right Heather. Big Banks are part of the club that’s sitting back laughing and getting fat, while working people starve. I guess in a way most politicians are in some way a part of that club. I’m starting to feel like it doesn’t matter who’s in office. How long will it take before the middle class takes to the street? We need to make our elected officials work for us. I think I have about one more year in me before I go nuts and go to DC and pitch a tent. The first high profile patch of lawn I see I’m squatin’ on it and I’m going to express myself until I run out of money/food or they take me away. Maybe they’ll listen if enough of us scream.
We need more Americans being put to work building, repairing and maintaining what America desperately needs. It’s criminal to go into Manhattan and see the subway system crumbling and bridges which are just barely standing, and poor people having to ride their bicycles on 4’ wide shoulders on dark curvy roads to get to a low paying job in the ‘burbs, while this country is “nation building” and constantly fighting overseas.
Honestly, I’m starting to look at the President with squinty eyes right now, but unless the opposition has a complete make-over and introduces this wonderful candidate, I’m sticking with the one we’ve got. I haven’t forgotten who go us into this mess.June 22, 2011 at 8:36 pm #161934
I don’t think that’s what he meant. The point is that those jobs are only there because we pay taxes. They’re not making anything, selling anything, etc. They’re just there. Don’t get me wrong, some of those jobs are absolutely necessary but the problem comes with how much those jobs cost the public at large and the fact that most, not all, governments don’t feel a sense of financial responsibility because the money will always come in. It’s not like a private company where work needs to be brought in or goods or services sold to make money, the government just takes the money through taxes, no asking, not billing, no product. And yes, I understand the services they provide is a product but we don’t get a say in what we are getting and the quality of the services for the price we HAVE TO pay.
It’s great that where you live you’re government is so responsible, I wish ours was. I live in NJ one of the most expensive, over-taxed states in the country and pretty much all of our public systems spend way more money then they have. I love this state and I”m really not complaining because if I really hated it, I can just move but look at the teachers unions, and government workers, the Governer asked them to pay just 1.5% of their salary toward health care and benefits and they were all up in arms. I would love to pay just 1.5%. Now they’ve screwed themselves and the Governer is saying OK…prepare to pay 20-30%….good! I’m not sure why people don’t understand this issue.June 22, 2011 at 9:10 pm #161933Leslie B WagleParticipant
Since we have over 100 posts on here, I’ll contribute again to the next 100. Here’s a link my son sent to me calling it an “article of unvarnished gloom,” that let’s pray does eventually become a record of history and not a perpetual condition:
(Ignore its political comments, I think he just wanted me to see the data interpretation for jobs in general).June 22, 2011 at 9:11 pm #161932
Had to laugh because we were denied for an equipment loan…finally. I guess having an excellent credit score just isn’t enough. 😉 I guess we are a risk because we aren’t already rich…haha.June 22, 2011 at 9:21 pm #161931Craig AnthonyParticipant
Oh that’s easy. You just need to go to one of the banks that have the commercials with the people with the nice friendly faces that say they care about small businesses and local communities. Some even say that’s what they’re all about.June 22, 2011 at 9:28 pm #161930mark fosterParticipant
“Small business loan” is like bigfoot– a lot of people believe it is real, but no one has seen it..Your best bet is to go with the financing offered by the manufacturer (if new), or take it out on a credit card. Good news–there are business credit cards with MUCH lower interest–still high but not outrageous.
A true story:
After many, many years in business and about 5 years ago I walked into my bank to make a deposit and was approached by a manager who asked if I wanted a business loan. Although I didn’t need it, I said, “sure”, thinking that finally I would have a business relationship with my bank (of 30+years). They said how much?, and I said (being conservative) how about $ 20K. After submitting documentation of the last several years of everything but my underwear preference (the stack of paper copies was 4″ tall), she called and said I had been turned down. I said, “well let’s start small–how about loaning me a thousand dollars, and we’ll see how it goes?” She replied ” Oh, we can’t lend you a penny, but I saw your website– do you think you could take me around and show me some of these beautiful places?
I swear, a true story– don’t waste your time with a bank. They were never what you thought they were, and they are less so now.June 23, 2011 at 12:36 am #161929
haha…oh man Mark. Yeah…that is crazy. I think that anything in government or in banking where they say they want to support small businesses is as political as the terms “green” or “sustainable”. I hate when politicians guess what we want as a small business owner… that are quick to turn down any sort of health care reform that could help us afford more then catastrophic health insurance.
Fortunately, we saw the writing on the wall and my mom has agreed to lend us the money for the trailer we need. It truly is crazy considering we qualified for a car loan last year with a much lower income the year before and then paid the whole thing off in what? 4 months? :p
We also have ourselves lumped into the term “small business” which includes Multi millionaires…(NOT US!) haha. Maybe we need our own term…teeny business? Micro business? Maybe those micro loans are something to get into…make a higher interest then the banks offer and support REAL small businesses. Hhhmmm….June 23, 2011 at 2:04 am #161928
I honestly think you don’t have to defend your need to make a living. People like to pontificate…but ultimately this is YOUR life.June 23, 2011 at 3:17 am #161927Tosh KParticipant
A building architecture office pushing “green” houses that’s doing well in VA:
Granted, 3 of the biggest private developers are pulling out of the area and limiting competition, but they’ve been marketing themselves into success.
The lack of credit is still a major problem, even for the big companies – though they can go to the Treasury if things get really ugly. Of course they can borrow from cash rich folks like Warren Buffet, but there the interest is very high. It is sad to see a lot of small businesses go belly up in this kind of lending market, but with a slow and long recovery ahead, most banks can’t take the risk as they pass on the debt (and hence the bank failures of 2 yrs back).
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