July 22, 2010 at 9:22 pm #168618ncaParticipant
Why not just copy the ttb xref to each layout in paperspace? It updates all ttb’s at once when you update the xref.July 22, 2010 at 9:31 pm #168617
Is the titleblock a separate dwg? If it isn’t what’s the point of using an xref when a veiwport will do? Maybe I’m missing something there.
If it is a separate dwg, why is that? It’s easy to just keep your ttb info in a template file used to create all your dwgs.
By the way, in using design center (got updated on that too), I discovered that everything associated with the layout can be dragged into my dwg. That includes the ttb I have in my layouts. Even though I try to have all my layouts already set up in my template dwg, I have a few I make for specific projects. Simply drag them over and everything’s there. It’s not an x-ref, it’s an empty viewport open to model space. I haven’t looked to see if that includes viewport set ups, like visible layers or scale. Will check it out.July 22, 2010 at 10:09 pm #168616Andrew SpieringParticipant
My questions exactly. We have the TB as a separate file, then xref it into paperspace.July 22, 2010 at 10:15 pm #168615Andrew SpieringParticipant
I agree. I was surprised to find out xrefs were not used more extensively. That is all that I do. I find that the more I can separate information (especially between disciplines) the easier it is for me to manage the content of the files. Even for landscape files, I typically separate out information like planting, irrigation, grading/drainage, and xref them into sheet files. I should look for a decent file to upload as an example…July 22, 2010 at 10:34 pm #168614Wyatt Thompson, PLAParticipant
I, too, have been surprised at the disdain for xrefs. I work in a civil/landscape architecture office so maybe that’s why I’ve come to rely on them so heavily. We typically have a single base drawing that is generated initially by our survey crews in the field. All existing and proposed layers are placed into this one drawing – utilities, grading, pavements, etc. Work from other consultants is xref’d into this base and is therefore easily updated when revisions occur. Proposed contours need to be in the base to generate utility sheet and earthwork calcs. (The only exception to this would be landscape and irrigation plans – those symbols are inserted directly into the sheets.)
This base drawing is then xref’d into multiple drawings using the Sheet Set Manager. A new drawing is created for each sheet we’re going to have in a set; notes and information pertinent to that sheet are added in paperspace in that new drawing. This is a matter of quality control and efficiency. If there are multiple base drawings and something is changed in one, but not all, there will be problems. With all your sheets in one drawing (using paperspace tabs) only one person can work on that set at a time. I suppose if you run a one-person shop that’s fine. But if there are employees across the room or across offices trying to work together to meet a deadline, xrefs and multiple drawings are the only way to go IMO.July 23, 2010 at 12:01 am #168613Ryan A. WaggonerParticipant
I agree. I find that working in xrefs is the easiest and best way to work. I currently work in an office that takes other disciplines drawings and blocks them in and changes what they need to, when they need to. I find this a very dangerous habit and an overall bad method. Unfortunately, the architects we work with have similar methods, and so we end up with three variations of the original civil drawing…something I’m sure Todd W has seen before, other disciplines massacring his work. Using xrefs ensures the validity of the drawings and also allows for instant updates when other disciplines make adjustments to their drawings. Even with smaller sites, it’s good practice to always keep other drawings as seperate entities. As for title block information, I agree that this is also best to keep as a master xref, and only change when necessary by saving as another file and changing the xref path. In my first job I worked directly next to our CAD techs, which I now see as a great benefit for understanding why to do the right things the first time and never “cheating” on CAD….it only leads to disaster eventually…July 23, 2010 at 12:32 am #168612
I’m in a CE office and we very easily use single drawings on projects that have hundreds of layers. We keep all layers with the exception of image layers (which we name with an underscore which goes above a zero in the layer list) thawed and on in global model space. We freeze layers in viewports to manage each sheet in separate layout tabs. If we need to isolate some layers for convenience of editing, we do do so by using the on/off setting in layer isolate (which we keep as the default) rather han freezing. Then all you do is hit the “all on” layer control and each and every layout is back to the way your viewport is set up and ready to print. I can make a revision in a single viewport in a single drawing, update the revision date in the title viewport, click on the first layout tab and plot the first sheet (saved plot setup for each layout). Then all you have to do is click the next layout, hit enter twice on your keyboard and that sheet is printed and in thrty seconds you printed the whole drawing set with the revision and updated title block without opening another drawing. What can be simpler than that?
The main reason that we don’t xref the title block is that we no longer have one that is tied to the border. This allows us to “float” the title around in order to make room for an odd shaped property (we use polygon viewports most of the time), or to fit in tables, note blocks, signature lines, or whatever else is competing for space on the sheet when necessary. It is much more flexible just to pop it into a viewport.. If I need to add a revision date I just click in the viewport on any sheet layout and it updates on all sheets without leaving the drawing. I’ll put the text for the subtitle in paper space on top of the main title viewport..
This really helps when we are running around with last minute edits for a filing deadline. We are the ones getting the architect’s new footprint in (pdf form more often than CAD, many don’t play well with others it seems) the day before the filing and having to pull it back from property line, or wetland, or septic, other setbacks that they missed or did not know about.. That is a major pain if the architects drawing is an xref that is not allowing us t float one building away from other elements in his drawing should we need to.
The best part is that it is all together in a single drawing that is not dependent on linking to others and hoping that all is current, uncorrupted, and such. It really seems like a lot more of hassle to manage multiple drawings than a single drawing until a project is complicated enough to warrant it.. You still have to manage layers in xref drawings anyway.
The amazing thing is just how many very effective ways there are to manage drawings in ACAD. I’m not saying one way is the right way or another iswrong. It really matters on what commands, tools, familiarity, and management rational that works in your group. It is good that lots of people are sharing various ways that give us all options to think about. There are so many ways to do things just as simple as drating in a house footprint. ( I use offset and fillet).
Sometimes I wonder if people, myself included, just feel compelled to do things a certain way simply because of trained habits from previous employers or school.July 23, 2010 at 12:34 am #168611
Why does it seem necessary to separate information in separate drawings instead of on separate layers? It seem to me to add a level of complication especially when it comes to editing.July 23, 2010 at 1:14 am #168610ncaParticipant
So what do you do when you get a new site plan from a consultant? Block it in? I don’t get it. I’m also having trouble understanding how you’re viewporting the ttblock AND the site linework into the same sheet. You have a vp inside a vp?
I like the idea of a national cad standard naming convention.July 23, 2010 at 1:35 am #168609
I hate to answer for Andrew, but I’m pretty sure he does have a vp in another vp and certainly more than one in some layouts.
By the way Andrew, I’ve noticed that when I have a vp in a vp I can’t work on the interior vp. Double click in it and I only get the vp in which it’s embedded. I have managed this by moving the vp off the paper to edit, then back when done–it does sort of lock the vp, but it’s a pain, especially if I’ve got something only on the layout (not in the vp). I’m sure I can change the shape of the larger vp, but sometimes I don’t want to do that.
Any ideas on that one?July 23, 2010 at 1:41 am #168608
I can definitely see how x-refs are critical with multiusers. I’m a one-person office and haven’t found a use for them yet. But that’s not disdain :-).July 23, 2010 at 1:59 am #168607
Yes, Lynn, they are just separate viewports. When one viewport is sitting within the bounds of another, I click on it to get the grips lit up and then stretch it out past the edge of the other that it was surrounded by. Then you can click in it without clicking within the other one.I use separate viewports for plant shedules as well so that I can keep the symbols at the same scale as they appear in the plan.
Some people like to blow up their paperspace to match the scale of the viewport so that the text and dimensioning are the same. I gave that up for using inches in paper space and zoom and lock my viewports to the scale that I’m using. I find that it keeps from having scaling mistakes. I keep my properties open and anchored on the right so that I can edit just about anything including viewports just by clicking on them and editing color, scale, and about anything else right in the properties dialog box. Especially handy for managing viewports (locking and scaling).
I used to manage layers using “layer manager” or whatever they now call it, but evolved into managing all layer setups through the layouts and viewports and keeping global model space ALL Thawed. Everything is the way it should be at all times. When I need to turn on other layers I either go to global model space make the desired layer current, click on the layout I want to thaw it on, and then thaw it in the drop down layer too bar that is displaying that layer since it is current (very quick).July 23, 2010 at 3:30 am #168606
Thanks Andrew. I’ve never tried blowing up paper space. It did take a little time to get used to the difference in scale in and out of a viewport. I created a text and leader style just for layout when I need to put something in paper space. Don’t use it much, but it’s good to have.
Annotative texts have been my difficulty. Every time I think I’ve got it, I seem to miss something.
So, if you keep everything on in model space, does that mean you work in the viewports when you need to work on the model. I would say I keep everything on in model unless it gets in my way. I’d say I use fewer than 25 layers most of time so it’s not a big deal to turn a couple off now and then. (By the way, I love how you turn off layers in SketchUp–just check the ones you want–maybe AC will add that.)
One more thing (sorry to hijack this thread) but I’ve rarely ever used plant schedules. I label well and it wasn’t the convention at the last company I worked. I have used a few lately–certainly put them in viewports. How does everyone create a plant schedule table?
Actually, I think I’ll see if I can start a new discussion on plant tables. Please look for it and comment.June 4, 2014 at 4:38 pm #168605Tonie C.Participant
I know this is a really old thread, but people tend to refer to them for info. On that note, here is a nice concise (free) X-ref tutorial:
Sorry, Land8 won’t let me make it a live link.
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