May 16, 2011 at 9:43 pm #163000
I agree with the general sentiment about (the very real problem of) utterly ridiculous demands for skills/experience in many job listings, but to be fair this example appears to be more of a wording mishap than an intentional slight against qualified, experienced professionals.
Reading the listing (which is still up at 5:21 pm EST), the posting is ‘Summer Position with Full Time Potential.’ The only time they use the word “internship” is in the very last sentence: ‘This particular opportunity will begin as an hourly internship position with the promise of a full-time position depending on fit and project workload.’
They seem to be using the term “internship” to convey what that this is a ‘trial period’ position with pay but probably no other benefits (with the promise of consideration for full employment after assessment), a situation that is very common for the first three months of employment in ours and many other sectors.
Inelegant, definitely, given our professional perception of what ‘internship’ implies, but this doesn’t strike me as an attempt to undermine or insult/bottomfeed on the experience of qualified professionals. On a broader level though (speaking to the whole “non-RLAs calling themselves landscape architects” discussion), we need a lot more clarity in the profession about what to call ourselves, and this kind of sloppy wording doesn’t do anyone any favors. Architects have “intern” positions that are full time and paid for yet-to-be-licensed architectural designers, but that is not what’s being conveyed here.
I will say that this firm seems to place their job listings on ASLA as a matter of course, so I appreciate their support of the organization and willingness to open the field of applicants (rather than to never advertise open positions and only hire through who-knows-somebody-good sources), which I think is commendable. Definitely should get their wording straight though!May 16, 2011 at 9:52 pm #162999
P.S. – Did anyone notice under “Skills Required” this listing states the following?
“Design AutoCad Project Managenent In-Design Photo Shop”
This is not copy that was put together with much care, a single comma, or even a basic spell check (also I think the Photo Shop has long since gone out of business in the age of digital, lol), so perhaps we shouldn’t over-analyze their use of the term “internship”! Let’s all just hope this means that they’re SO SLAMMED with work that they desperately need qualified, experienced designers. Who can write. 😉May 16, 2011 at 10:11 pm #162998
Amy you did not see the original post titled “Summer Internship with Full Time Potential.” This is the post people are responding to. The “Summer Position with Full Time Potential” was only posted after I complained and ASLA agreed to take the original post down. They reposted the position with the words “Summer Position” in lieu of internship thereafter. The internship sentance you refer to is from the original ad. They missed editing this particular use of the word internship when they reposted.
I appreciate your open-minded response to the thread, but I know Gregory Lombardi Design’s reputation with employees and you give them far too much credit. I do not believe for one minute that the wording was an oversight by any means. Our profession must guard against these types of employers for everyone’s sake.May 16, 2011 at 10:22 pm #162997
…and I have never seen a job posting entitled “Three Month Trial Period with Potential for Full Time Work.” : )May 16, 2011 at 10:50 pm #162996
I didn’t see the original posting, only realized this after I saw your discussion after posting my original comment. Just tried to post an addendum here but it’s not going through. So obviously I’m not responding to the same thing which makes it hard for me to comment on the original post.
I don’t know anything about this firm other than they seem to post somewhat frequently on ASLA, so that’s all I’m going on here in interpreting what I read. As I commented, this does appear to be a very sloppily worded posting (and believe me, as a grammar snob that would make me almost equally wary about working for them) but I also still got the sense that they’re looking for a trial position with long term potential after re-assessment, and not simply an ‘Intern’ as we understand it. If they have a predatory reputation in terms of how they recruit and treat employees, that certainly would change things.
Very few job listings will actually state “Three Month Trial Period with Potential for Full Time Work,” of course, but it is extremely common and accepted across industries (I’ve worked in several others besides private sector la) to not grant any benefits other than pay until after a three month period and to have an understanding that the first three months represent a trial period during which they (or you) may decide you’re just not a good fit. I’ve seen this variously spelled out in Employee Handbooks and the like, but this listing just struck me as a spectacularly inelegant way of conveying a common practice.
I do agree with the sentiment that we need to protect ourselves against abuses particularly in this “buyer’s market” though. Just wanted to make sure we weren’t jumping the gun here. If we as a profession could agree on what the hell to call ourselves at different levels of experience/registration, that would certainly help! 😀May 17, 2011 at 12:35 am #162995Andrew Garulay, RLAParticipant
I did not make this thread to call out Lombardi.I want to be clear on that. I brought it up because it emphasized what many people trying to enter the profession were frustrated with. Lombardi’s work is outstanding and that firm has earned the ability to pick and choose its employees. I did not have a problem with the ad specifically, but it really hits the point of just how far back in line new and recent graduates are when it comes to getting hired. That is a tough situation and this ad really made me understand that a lot more than I did.May 17, 2011 at 1:36 am #162994
Very diplomatic response.May 17, 2011 at 1:47 am #162993Cara McConnellParticipant
Don’t think you did us some type of service, Andrew. You could read into that ad from a mile away. These guys are not any different from our large corporations who outsource jobs to lower pay employees. I can draw my own conclusions about Lombardi and it’s quite low! The words I prefer to use to describe the firm are forbidden on this thread. Seems like you need to lose your job to make you “understand how tough” it is out there.
I am one year away from obtaining another degree, something completely different. No more A & E jobs for me, Hooray! Too much roller coaster rides. Get ready for another housing bubble burst!
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