August 9, 2011 at 1:47 pm #161147
dear Mr. Garulay, the Laffer Curve that purports to show that income t hat is not taxed causes more economic activity, is just that – a joke..Recent history has proven that – govenment revenue produces 1.36$ of economic activity, compared to lowering taxes and giving money to the rich, which benefits society at a less that 1:1 ration. So you are wrong there, and the downturn in the British economy when the conservatives took control and instituted their policies proves it again..
Yes, the people elected Obama, who could be considered more left than Clinton in some ways (not in terms of war-mongering) but Obama has been outmaneuvered ,or something, by republicans and rightists almost every step of the way. .either that or he was the Manchurian Candidate, which is a possiblity.
I don’t think the country has become more right, I just think the rightists (like Karl Rove) have figured out ways to retain power. Bush has pretty much busted us., with his anti-regulatory as well as mendacious activities – Halliburton raked it in, in that ridiculous war..August 9, 2011 at 2:19 pm #161146
Jason, anything that does not align with the socialist, communist idealogy is considered radical to them and therefore is wrong…I thought you knew that you were not allowed to research and decide on your own and do your own thinking….there is no toleration for any other viewpoint!!!!!
Now, GET IN LINE BOY!!! Stay on the plantation……August 9, 2011 at 2:34 pm #161145
Alan, it seems that actually the reverse if what you say is more in keeping with this conversation – Jason is laying claim to ‘the truth’ and to ‘facts.’ I think that anyone who claims to know the truth is obviously following a religion and not reality. The world is far too subtle to be only one way.
So, I’m rubber and you are glue..etc..August 9, 2011 at 2:44 pm #161144
That’s what you do Tracie…..August 9, 2011 at 3:24 pm #161143
Me too! And how can we deny that fiscally the conversation is dominated by conservatives? The GOP considered it a compromise if they would agree to raise the debt ceiling…something required to pay existing bills, including wars,etc. they had already agreed to. So our debt ceiling debate was immediately yanked way over to the right because you had a group of representatives willing to vote no to everything to insure default. The republicans got nearly everything they wanted…we didn’t even have any serious consideration of tax increases? And we still say this administration is liberal? I would agree on social issues it is progressive…but fiscally…no. They got no chops. The GOP likes to say libs are “tax and spend” well that is better then “spend and spend”. I also have to wonder about an economy that is constantly in cycles of booms and busts. I don’t know what would bring more stability…but I would prefer smaller booms in exchange for larger stints of stability. Is this sort of capitalism successful when we have recessions that seem to be coming closer and closer together. So close that this “new” one doesn’t look new to me.
The GOP had the implicent goal of making Obama a one term President…odd…I wish they were more interested in governing. We can see what they did when they were in control before…why should we give them a chance to do the very thing they want to. Destroy our government? It isn’t a secret when every GOP representative signs a pledge to (unelected!) Norquist. Why are our representatives signing pledges that seem to override their pledge to our country? Can you imagine if Obama or dems did something similar? Craziness. And it is ironic that some LAs are such huge proponents of politicians that probably think our ideas on the environment and public projects are un-American.
I do not think I am going to change anyone’s minds…just venting my frustration. We are all frustrated by the same things just have different ideas of what needs to be done. Liberals are frustrated because we feel our viewpoint is seriously missing from Washington DC. I don’t think I am “right” I just know that the path we have been on for years now is a dead end. I know there need to be cuts but the denial of tax increases by the right is mind blowing. We should have raised taxes for the two wars we went into…when we went into them.August 9, 2011 at 3:26 pm #161142
The left had their shot and they fumbled the ball, just like the right is currently doing. I would like there to be some tact by both sides so they can figure this stuff out without all the hate from the left and the zeal from the right.
Turns out the majority of people are not far left or far right. There is so many of us with our own wants and desires that a strong anything is a bad thing. So unless you like oppression we don’t want a strong anything. I don’t want to be taxed to death, but I also think that there should be a baseline of government services. As I look at the brownfield sites in my hometown I say what a shame, but we can’t scare all the business to another country with oppressive regulations. Unions should not have a monopoly on labor, but workers rights are important also. Shouldn’t life be respected and individual rights upheld? So should we not govern with common sense and compromise?
The problem that we are having is that there is not enough compromise so we just keep riding the pendulum between the two extremes. So no to strong left and no strong right.August 9, 2011 at 3:29 pm #161141
Tracie, so religion is not reality? why, I’ve seen you pontificate on Sin right here in The Lounge…..August 9, 2011 at 3:41 pm #161140
I like the regular electoral system. This deal where we recall anyone that does anything that we don’t like is a dangerous precedent. Let them finish their terms and then replace them. Except for those that are refusing to do their jobs. It is an embarrassment.August 9, 2011 at 3:48 pm #161139
I agree Jordan. I consider myself a moderate (registered Independent) which was why I was really confused by anyone saying no cuts or no increases. Clearly we have bills to pay…haha. We have our own business and live in Idaho. Our state is fighting any tax increases but continues to hack at education spending…we were already 49th in spending pre-recession. Now they have passed a law (that is on the ballot to be voted down) which will supply all 9th graders with a lap top…the lap tops will be funded with money that previously went to hire teachers. Students will be required to take at least four on-line classes. Not surprisingly, these politicians received campaign funds from on-line education companies in VIRGINIA. We have thought of moving out of the state just so we know our children can receive a good education…we are fortunate that we live in Moscow…a tiny liberal town in Idaho that invests in the education of its children. We would gladly pay more in taxes for education. Businesses are attracted to areas that have updated infrastructure, well funded education, etc. because their employees are more likely to stay. These things cost money and we pay for it as a society in taxes. I don’t get the whiplash reaction to tax. Obviously you can be taxed too much…but the majority of Americans are not.
Sorry about my rambling thought process…I am just really hesitant to say that private is always better then public. In the case of our education issues in Idaho we see the state sending public funds out of state where it won’t even benefit local economies. It is so backward.August 9, 2011 at 3:54 pm #161138
Again, agree.August 9, 2011 at 4:02 pm #161137
Well said Todd. We are not necessarily a liberal profession, nor are we a conservative profession.August 9, 2011 at 4:17 pm #161136
I didn’t say anybody should hold those views – just said it seemed more compatible..big difference!!! And Olmstead was an egalitarian..One of the driving principles of his philosophy was bringing nature to everybody, what has previously only been seen on the estates of the rich..
Seems pretty democratic to me!
I lean left! Full disclosure..If you think you are an original, and your ideas spring from your own head, you got a lot of learning to do..and self- examination..we depend on the knowledge of the past, we have built our society on the shoulders of our forefathers..It always amuses me how people think they are the first ones to see the world..Humans have a huge capacity for believing they are the first..and the only…August 9, 2011 at 4:59 pm #161135
Todd, I have log ago given up on being able to spell Olmsted…with any regularity..and I mean democratic with a small d.
here’s to compromise and polite conversation..even if it is politics..I can ONLY do that on-line,, actually – where come from, politics is off – limits unless you want a black eye and no dinner…August 9, 2011 at 5:20 pm #161134Andrew Garulay, RLAParticipant
… until January there were 55 dem senators with two independents who were liberal vs. 41 senators (two from Maine often voted with dems). the house had 256 dems and 178 reps … there is no way that he was out maneuvered by the Pepublicans because they had zero power. Things could pass without bipartisan support and nothing could fail without bi-partisan opposition.
That would have included deficit reductions if there was an interest in doing so. It could have raised the debt ceiling with no opposition (and no one to blame), but did not.August 9, 2011 at 6:45 pm #161133
are you asking me to defend Obama? I am not one of those. Please add to his infractions the lack of use of recess apointments – he had two years before the repubs started holding the intersession sessions to block recess apointments. Also add the use of signing statements, the increased use of drones in afghanastan, the expansion of our wars to Yemen and Libya (which congress has yet to put a stop to, after the sixty day mark), the new announcement that they will promote drilling in the arctic, the cave-in to the ‘war on terror’ meme w ith trials at Guantanamo, while it should be police action, with trials in federal courts…the continued use of black sites for detainees, the expansion of the prosecution of whistleblowers – oh, no you not gonna get me to defend obama..in fact the way he caved to the repubs on the Bush tax cuts – absolutely shameful..Those tax cuts are one of the drivers of our current problems..
Oh, no, I’m not going to defend Obama..I was talking about economic theory, not actions by politicians..
He has done a few things right..Withdrawing from the Bush era attempt to prevent the EPA from regulating greenhouse gases, and letting CA. lead the way – that was a good move..I like Michele’s garden at the White house..
a few other things..but no, I cannot defend him at all. I always wanted Hilary, but she is really too much of a hawk, anyway..
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