[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

As I mentioned…..regardless of the “Design Fee”, if would be sure that “every” Project I designed first had a “written Contract…signed & dated by both parties”. It’s just good business. Include “Scope of Design Services:, Fee, When the Fee is to be paid, Clause for Revision time (hourly rate), Hourly fee for Site visits & Site Meetings; Hourly rate to handle Bidding process, etc. I even charge for “print costs” if I think it could be substantial. The LA Design Fee should be for “Design Only”…everything else is “extra”.

I’m sure if you look around on-line, there are some good “examples” of some good Landscape Architect’s Contract Agreements.

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Hello Andrew….You’ve made several very good points here. The only thing I question is your statement about “State Laws” controlling how much $$$ Landscape Architects can charge up front. I’ve just never heard of that issue before. My concern over the years is that “some Clients” after you have spent many hours creating a “Preliminary Landscape Design or Master Plan”….that Client could just take that Preliminary Design & hire a local Landscape Contracting Company. In my opinion, that Preliminary Design is easily worth 50% of the overall Design Fee…not 10% of the Design Fee. So, at least for “Residential Projects” I have always requested and received 50% of the Design Fee upfront. Then, I normally don’t invoice for the final 50% until after I have completed the Final Plans & delivered the Plans to my Clients.
Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Hi Amber…You’re more than welcome. Yes, I really feel strongly about getting 50% of the Design Fee up front (with a written (signed & dated Contract)…The contract isn’t “personal”, just good business practice. And, when a Client puts up 50% of the Design fee..they have skin in the game. Some Clients will take advantage of some Landscape Designers & just take the “Preliminary Design”…and run to their nearest Landscape Contractor. If they do, the Landscape Designer who didn’t get that 50% of the Fee up front…is plain out of luck.

I have read on-line, that new Landscape Architects these days, earn approx. $28.00 per hour (plus benefits) when they join a Landscape Architecture Firm. So, with a few years of design experience….Hourly Rates could be from $35.00 to say $50.00. Back 10 go 15 years ago, when I was SUPER busy and working tons of hours daily…I was able to get over $100.00 per hour…but, part of that was due to my years of experience.

I joined the Website called “Upwork”. It’s free to join. They just need to verify who you are with an on-line Skype chat…and verify your physical address (I used my Texas Driver’s License). This Site has it’s pluses & minuses. Most Clients are wanting the LOWEST DESIGN FEES possible…so, you just have to search. I have only designed a few Projects on Upwork, as the FEES normally don’t very well for me. But, if you know autoCAD and have some design experience…it’s worth looking into. All Design work is Virtual..for every State in America. I even designed a project in Sydney, Australia on Upwork.

For me to take on a Design Project now…I really feel like I need to earn around $65.00 per hour. But, I’m pretty selective, as I don’t need to design any longer…just do, because I enjoy it. But, there are many Landscape Design Projects on Upwork that pay from $25.00 to $50.00…but, there is a lot of competition…even with Designers from Foreign Nations who are willing to design for $10.00 to $20.00. Some are very talented, some aren’t.

I also design for (3) Out of State Landscape Architecture Firms…to provide Preliminary Designs & Color Renderings (High-End Residential, Commercial & Multi-Family Projects. In my past, for many many years, I designed something like 200 Apartment Communities in 9 different States (because I designed for a Dallas, Texas LA Firm) that specialized in Apartment design work…so, learned that niche…really top dollar for those types of projects. I practically made a Career designing Apartment Communities…as the Fees for each Average $25K each. But, I have some Landscape Architect Friends who have done very well designing Residential for the past 35 to 40 years…Residential, especially the High-End Residential market will always keep going. And, Residential is also the easiest way to get “experience” and land new projects when you beginning your design career.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask or message me. I have mentored many many younger Landscape Architects & am always happy to help. I remember when I first began my design career…it just takes some time and experience to learn this profession, but, it’s a GREAT profession, for sure!

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Hello Amber….Your question is a good one. For me, I practiced @ 2 Landscape Architecture Firms for about 13 yrs..then, went on my own in 1991 @ Age 41 (a 1 man Design Firm). Over the past 10 years, a majority of my design projects have been “virtual”,,.as I work out of my home.

The time it takes to design any project really depends on the “type” of project you’re designing and the “Scope of Services”. Is it a simple project or very complex. Does the Client have a “Budget”?

For Residential Projects, for instance, I always first create a “Preliminary Design along with a Preliminary Cost Estimate” for my Clients. Then, ask for feedback. Do they want any revisions or changes? This can take several days to a week or longer. After receiving “approval “from your Client, you can proceed to produce Final Plans. Again, the TIME it takes depends on many factors. Final Plans can take from 1 to 2 weeks or much longer for large/complex Residential Projects.

I designed a Luxury Residential Project earlier this year that took me close to 3 months time (it was a $5 Million Estate on 8.5 Acres and a very complex project). And, I have designed many smaller, simpler Residential Projects as well…Residential Projects that take me approx. (2) Weeks to design. Sim TIME is money & you need to fully understand what your Client is wanting designed…and then, do your best to estimate your time to produce the project. Some Landscape Architects will use an “Hourly Rate” while others will use a “Fixed Fee”. Just be sure if you go with a “Fixed Fee” you feel good about that Fee (and that your Contract Agreement) has a “Revision clause” in it…as some clients will make many revisions that could cause you to earn ZERO profits. Also, charge for hourly rates to visit the project site; charge for print costs.

And, of course, more experienced Landscape Architects & Designers should take less time than less experienced designers. The more experience you have…the projects just seem to go more smoothly & more quickly.

I was “curious” a few months ago about what the “Average” Design Fee that was charged by Landscape Architects/Designers for a Single Family Home in the United States. I found on-line, that that Average Design Fee is $4,000,00. This figure is for the “average” Home. And again, it really depends on what a Home Owner is wanting designed “Scope of Services”.

One thing I have ALWAYS done over the years for EVERY Design Project…..Get a Signed & Dated Contract from the Client. For Residential Projects, I request 50% of the Design Fee up front with a Signed/Dated Contract.

I hope some of this is helpful to you. GOOD LUCK!
Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Well…I have seen some Photoshop renderings that have “very flat color…almost looks like paint by number”. But, yes, maybe it doesn’t matter so much any longer that we need to impress Clients with a “Color Rendering”…but, it actually does help Clients to “understand” the design IDEAS better.

And, I totally understand that “autoCAD” is where the LA profession has been for many years. But, I’ve seen way too many “autoCAD” drawings where maybe only (1 or 2) line weights were used…very difficult to read & understand those drawings. A variety of “line weights” makes a huge different, whether it’s “autoCAD” or “Hand Drawn”. What’s important, I believe, is that the Contractors can easily read and understand the Contract Documents (for biding & construction purposes). I also have a bit of an issue with the “autoCAD” plant symbols. I’ve seen plans that have 40 to 50 “plant symbols” on a Plant Key. The LA understands them, of course, but, IMO, I believe there will be Landscape Contractors who might be “confused” in the field…making SURE they’re planting the correct plants/trees where they’re designated to be planted. Personally, I have always felt that using “leader lines” and an abbreviated Plant name like “TCM” Tree Crapemyrtle with a quantity, like (5)…is clearer for Landscape Contract Laborers to understand. Communication of ALL Contract Documents is KEY.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Just a P.S…….There are approx. 8 Landscape Architects who have posted to this Forum. Talking highly of “autoCAD” as well as other “computer generated software programs”……yet, looking at everyone’s Profiles, I’m seeing ZERO “Work Samples”…except for Bob Luther (nice work, BTW).

I just believe it would be helpful to other Landscape Architects here on Land 8…..to actually SEE…examples of “autoCAD drawings Photo Shop, Sketch Up, 3D Computer Renderings, etc. LA’s here on LAND 8 can’t see and learn from me with respect to “autoCAD”,…AS 100% of the projects I show on my LAND 8 Profile are all…”Hand Drawn”.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

I guess I’m sort of an “anomaly” as a Landscape Architect…as I have managed a successful (42) year design career without the use of “autoCAD” or any other type of “computer generated software program”. 100% of over 600 plus projects designed “By Hand Drawing”. And, I’m still
active on a somewhat limited basis, now at Age 70.

In 1991, after 15 years of designing completely “By Hand”…I became extremely busy with major design projects…no time to stop to learn “autoCAD”…had I stopped to learn, I would have lost several major clients, for sure. So, just kept on doing with what I knew best “Hand Drawing”. Of course, I “could” have farmed out my designs and hired a young “autoCAD tech” or expanded my Design Practice and hired a couple of young LA’s who were proficient with “autoCAD”…it was just a “Career Decision” to remain as a (1) man LA Design Practice.

Interesting too, never in my entire LA Career, has a single Client of mine requested that I produce any of their projects using “autoCAD”.

I think it’s GREAT that there are MANY “computer generated software programs” available to LA’s and have been for many years. But, LA’s should remember…in the very early stages of the “design process”, “Hand Drawing Skills” can be very helpful.

Just a side note: I was reviewing the Portfolio of a Landscape Architect graduate from The University of Georgia, a few days ago…This LA graduated in 2016, 4 years ago. If I were a University LA Professor, I’d give this LA a “D” for the color autoCAD Planting plans in his Portfolio & the one Final Drawing (autoCAD) was both very poor design & poor line quality use on the autoCAD. I guess I just expected more, from an LA graduate with (4) years of experience.

Whether drawings are created using “autoCAD” or “Drawn by Hand”……both the Design and the quality of the drawings need to be “outstanding”! Creativity, Strong Graphics, Good Line Weights, etc…High Quality Design & Graphics, regardless of the method/s you use should be a high priority, IMO.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Well said, Andrew. I know you have worked for a C.E. Firm in the past…so, you should have more knowledge about than many of the rest of us.

Also…Penelope, I would recommend going directly to your CLIENT (the Owner) and getting a copy
of the SURVEY from them. I just completed a Residential Project & was able to get the SURVEY directly sent to me from the Home Owner.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

I am pretty SURE…that every Professional Surveyor MUST be Licensed in each State where they Practice. Maybe particular Surveyor does NOT have “Liability Insurance”…..so, they’re not confident enough in their survey work, to stand behind it. Have they given you a “specific reason” WHY they feel they want you to “sign a release”? I’d be curious to know what it is. Ridiculous.

I have designed easily, over 600 Projects to date…never had a Surveyor deny me a Survey that I have requested….for any reason.

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Penelope…..in the 40 plus yrs. I’ve been practicing Landscape Architecture, I’ve never even heard of this. Land Surveyors are “Licensed” in every State. Surveyors, like Landscape Architects, should be carrying “Liability Insurance” for their businesses.

IMO, you should NOT have to sign a “release”.

Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Hello Christa…..I sent you a “personal message” here on LAND 8. Did you not receive it?
Kind Regards,
J. Robert (Bob) Wainner

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Hello Christine;

I am familiar with that University & the degree programs. Academy Of Art in San Francisco is Ranked #88 out of Universities located in the State of California. Also, it’s over-priced for the value. In addition, if your read carefully what their website states about their MA degree, it’s not really suited for students who are planning to practice Landscape Architecture.

I would recommend doing a lot more “research” to find a well recognized “Masters of Landscape Architecture” Degree Program. These Masters Degrees are 2 or 3 years. The 3 year Masters Degree is more comprehensive and is, I believe, better if your undergraduate program is NOT a degree in Landscape Architecture (either 4 or 5 yr, LA under graduate program…as those programs teach many very critical classes you need…including many computer software programs.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

OK, yeah, let’s “get real”. Earning a degree in Landscape Architecture is only intended to give students the basics that you NEED before you get out into the real World. I agree, you really LEARN by working @ an LA Firm (when you surround yourself with very talented and experienced Landscape Architects)…that’s what I did for the first (15) of my LA Career…and it paid off, big time too. With all the experience I picked up during those 15 years…I was able to establish my own Freelance LA Practice.

And, as far as the cost of a University Degree…I served America for (4) years of my LIFE in the U.S. Navy, partially, so I could earn G.I. College Education Assistance. I graduated with ZERO debts (and I received zero financial assistance from parents either). Too many students these days are wanting or expecting a FREE College education…IMO, taxpayers do not owe any student a FREE University education; Anything worth having is worth working for.

And, yes, there are LA Graduates who earn a degree, who IMO, never should have. I’ve seen some LA Graduate’s Portfolios that are pretty bad…don’t see much “potential”. I even had one of my LA Professors tell me in “private”…that he believed that about 50% of my fellow LA Graduates…just will never become “successful Landscape Architects”. And, now, I think he was probably right. And, I recall that my Junior LA Class had a total of 60 students…but, my Senior Class had only 30 Students (that’s because, 30 of those LA students couldn’t cut it)…the changed their majors. Not everyone is cut out to be a Landscape Architect, no matter how badly they want it.

I have no regrets of having put in 15 years designing for 2 different LA Firms…so that I could LEARN the how to design in the real World. You can’t expect to spend just 4 or 5 years and become a competent, talented and creative LA….it takes many years…you have to be willing to put in the hard work! Which, really, is true with every profession. I don’t think it’s “employers” who are lazy, it’s students and employees if anyone is.

I could have easily have retired 5 years ago…but, I have chosen to continue designing…..even now @ Age 70. And, until it stops being fun, I’ll just keep designing.

J. Robert (Bob) Wainner

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Telecommuting via autoCAD, etc Well, I think that’s GREAT, if someone owns an LA Company and hires several young LAs for “autoCAD” assistance. However, I chose a different route, a long time ago.

In Feb. 1991, I est. my Own (1) man LA firm…never hired any LA’s to back me up. I personally designed every project, handled all meetings, inspection trips (even out of State), etc. Probably designed approx. 250 projects between 1991 & 2020…and at least (120) of those projects were upscale Multi-Family projects…not the most glamorous type of projects to design, but, they sure paid well (those projects averaged approx. $30K each)…my only overhead was the IRS. So, you know who got to keep all those profits? Myself & my Wife. I just didn’t see (still don’t) the sense in hiring younger LA’s to assist me. Funny thing too about my LA Career…I’m probably one of the VERY FEW LA’s still practicing who has NEVER used “autoCAD”. And, I’ve never had a single Client ask me to produce any of their projects using “autoCAD”…I have just seriously focused on having exceptional “Hand Drawing Skills”…sort of have to when you don’t use “autoCAD”.
Every Project on my LAND 8 Project Profile…where designed & drawn “By Hand”.

If anyone had told me 30 years ago, that I would STILL be designing anything @ the Age of 70, I would have laughed out loud, for sure. Could have retired several years ago, probably should have. But, I still enjoy the “creative process”, so, why not keep going.

I still don’t know HOW all of the NEW LA graduates are going to make it in the “Real World” today…things have changed dramatically sense I graduated. I think I counted over (75) U.S. Universities with LA Degree Programs…and each University Graduating Class has from 25 to 50 Students. I wish them all THE BEST OF LUCK…won’t be easy, but, if you really want to be a successful LA, you just have to tell yourself “Don’t Give Up”.

[J. Robert (Bob) Wainner]

Working from Home. For myself, I have been working from my “Home Design Studio” (on my own), since Feb. of 1991. However, I spent (15) years designing for (2) different Landscape Architecture Firms…before going out on my own in 1991.

Even with those 15 years of design experience…it took me a full (2) years to get my own “Private Practice” up and running. This really is pretty much the norm…Doesn’t matter how much experience you have, money or how much marketing, etc…takes at least (2) years to get up and running…to the point where you’re can fully sustain yourself, financially. It took me (2) full years of some very aggressive “marketing” and taking on every little project I could get my hands on…until early 1993, when, I finally began to get LA design contractors from some major Developers.

I can’t really see Owners of LA Firms hiring recent LA Graduates…then, ask them to work from home. IMO, a recent Graduate NEEDS to be working in an LA Firm (under the direction & guidance) of experienced Landscape Architects. I was fortunate enough to gain (15) years of design experience working for an with many very talented, creative & experienced LAs…which made it possible for me to go out on my own…and do it successfully.

Although, I will add this. There may be “some” LA firms who might be willing to hire young LA’s right out of College (who are proficient with autoCAD and other types of computer software programs…3D, sketchup, etc…where they could provide “production assistance” to an LA firm. You may be looking @ $20 to $25 per hour?

I wish ALL LA Graduates the very BEST OF LUCK…just don’t really have any additional ideas answers for you here. Very difficult times for America…just hope we can get the Nation back to work (safely) ASAP!

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